Crossrail from May to Heathrow?

[Airliner 767]

Hello everyone,

Just to double check something with you: Since the Crossrail will be up and running as of May, does it mean that the currently operating Heathrow Connect service will stop running from Paddington? Or will there be a temporary period while this will be still in place?

Just asking as we, Heathrow employees currently "enjoy" a discounted pass on the Heathrow Connect trains between Reading/Paddington and LHR and not sure if this discounted pass (75% OFF) will be also offered also on the new Crossrail as part of TFL?

Has anyone got any news on this whether Heathrow and TFL hold maybe any discussions on this topic as this obviously affects a huge amount of airport workers and the new ticketing system (especially for those travelling from Zone 1 to the airport) will be a massive price increase in transport fares?

Any update on this would be appreciated.

 

[LLivery]

TfL Rail will be taking over Heathrow Connect in May but that will be the only change affecting the Airport until December; trains will continue to start and terminate at London Paddington. Abbey Wood to Paddington will open in December but it won't travel straight through to Heathrow and Reading until the end of 2019 I believe.

As for fares for staff, I know nothing about, but I'm sure people on here do.

A lot of info about Crossrail can be found in this very recent TfL press release: https://tfl.gov.uk/info-for/media/p...ounces-tfl-fares-will-apply-to-elizabeth-line

 

[MarlowDonkey]

A lot of info about Crossrail can be found in this very recent TfL press release:

Nothing about extending Oyster west of West Drayton though.

With all the Zone 1 Crossrail stations being interchanges, was there ever an opportunity for Crossrail not to have the usual TfL fares? For local stations on the line from Paddington out to West Drayton, it's only Heathrow that wasn't already in the usual Zone pricing.

 

[Airliner 767]

thanks LeeLivery for the input and clarification on this.
So all I need to know is now on the staff fares ...thanks in advance

 

[DavyCrocket]

I read a document the other day, I think it was the Mayoral Decision.
The existing discount scheme for Heathrow workers will end (can’t recall when). It went on to add that TfL are happy to have a Heathrow workers discount, but that TfL will not fund it. It said that at present, the operator funds it, rather than Heathrow.

What doesn’t quite make sense about the fares to Heathrow is that they say that Heathrow Rail will be in zone 6, but then special fares will apply. I’m taking that to mean that a travel card product will have no special fare needed, but a single fare will be more than a zone 6 one.

 

[CyrusWuff]

What doesn’t quite make sense about the fares to Heathrow is that they say that Heathrow Rail will be in zone 6, but then special fares will apply. I’m taking that to mean that a travel card product will have no special fare needed, but a single fare will be more than a zone 6 one.

The Mayoral Decision details the fares. For PAYG it's a £7 premium on top of the normal PAYG TfL fare to Zone 6 for journeys involving Zone 1, and £4.50 for those avoiding Zone 1.

For paper tickets, the premiums are £4.50/£3.00, respectively.

Fares for Heathrow Express have yet to be announced, but are not within the Mayor's remit.

 

[theironroad]

I read a document the other day, I think it was the Mayoral Decision.
The existing discount scheme for Heathrow workers will end (can’t recall when). It went on to add that TfL are happy to have a Heathrow workers discount, but that TfL will not fund it. It said that at present, the operator funds it, rather than Heathrow.

What doesn’t quite make sense about the fares to Heathrow is that they say that Heathrow Rail will be in zone 6, but then special fares will apply. I’m taking that to mean that a travel card product will have no special fare needed, but a single fare will be more than a zone 6 one.

Can't quite remember where I read it, but although Heathrow stays zone 6 for the tube it will not be zoned for crossrail and special rates apply. Those fares will be less than the current Heathrow express and the fare will also be part of the fare capping scheme.

 

[theironroad]

Looks like cyruswuff was typing at the same time as me, except with the details....

 

[matt_world2004]

Can't quite remember where I read it, but although Heathrow stays zone 6 for the tube it will not be zoned for crossrail and special rates apply. Those fares will be less than the current Heathrow express and the fare will also be part of the fare capping scheme.

Heathrow is zone 6 for crossrail there is however a premium for pay as you go fares. A paper zone 6 travelcard would be valid on TfL Rail to heathrow. TfL are currently in the process of coming to an agreement with HAL about a funded discount scheme for heathrow staff.

I dont know what the discount fare is but a full price weekly season ticket between Hayes & Harlington and Heathrow Airport is going to £25.50 and that will include bus travel too if the discount for heathrow staff is based on the full price return fare you might be better getting the full price travel card. The marginal increase in price would be worth it for the bus travel alone.

 

[rmt4ever]

Heathrow is zone 6 for crossrail there is however a premium for pay as you go fares. A paper zone 6 travelcard would be valid on TfL Rail to heathrow. TfL are currently in the process of coming to an agreement with HAL about a funded discount scheme for heathrow staff.

I dont know what the discount fare is but a full price weekly season ticket between Hayes & Harlington and Heathrow Airport is going to £25.50 and that will include bus travel too if the discount for heathrow staff is based on the full price return fare you might be better getting the full price travel card. The marginal increase in price would be worth it for the bus travel alone.

The current discount scheme gives 75% off any season ticket and single/return journeys for airport staff. It would be disgraceful for TFL to try and reduce this discount. Many airport workers are poorly paid

 

[matt_world2004]

The current discount scheme gives 75% off any season ticket and single/return journeys for airport staff. It would be disgraceful for TFL to try and reduce this discount. Many airport workers are poorly paid

A discount is currently being negotiated. Heathrow runs its own rail service that it can provide a disocunt to its poorly paid employees on

 

[rmt4ever]

A discount is currently being negotiated. Heathrow runs its own rail service that it can provide a disocunt to its poorly paid employees on

What if Heathrow refused to give up its own rail services to London transport ? They wouldn’t be able to let cross rails go to the airport would they ?

 

[matt_world2004]

What if Heathrow refused to give up its own rail services to London transport ? They wouldn’t be able to let cross rails go to the airport would they ?

They dont have much choice in the matter between Hayes & Harlington and Paddington the Heathrow Connect is a franchised rail service and they did try to hinder crossrail going to the airport by charging prohibitive track access fees

 

[rmt4ever]

They dont have much choice in the matter between Hayes & Harlington and Paddington the Heathrow Connect is a franchised rail service and they did try to hinder crossrail going to the airport by charging prohibitive track access fees

Can’t blame them really.

 

[matt_world2004]

What if Heathrow refused to give up its own rail services to London transport ? They wouldn’t be able to let cross rails go to the airport would they ?

The Heathrow airport staff will highly likely get a discount on full priced Crossrail fares between paddington/ heathrow and Reading/Heathrow .

The discount will likely be 75% on a full priced Heathrow connect fare. Since there is no season ticket returns currently on the Heathrow connect, The discount between Hayes & Harlington and Heathrow airport for a season ticket would be in the region of 75% off £60 a week

I have worked this out at about £15.

It is highly unlikely the discount will apply to tfl bus services (It doesn't currently)

When you assume the Heathrow Airport staff member would likely be getting a feeder bus service to the train station the full price zone 5-6 travelcard at £25.50 which is valid on tfl rail to heathrow is likely to be a cost effective solution This of course will change if they are getting a discount on non London bus services like First Berkshire.

The discount negotiations are likely to take a number of forms

1.)heathrow Airport limited pays the difference in ticket price for people who work in the airport area , This would probably be rolled into the free travel zone costs however it will create a tax implication for employees

2.)Ticket interavailability on the HEX/Crossrail this will allow heathrow to set the price of staff tickets directly , however it will mean the Heathrow Express is no longer a premium product (As tfl fares would be valid on the Heathrow Express)

3.) Reciprocal discounts for tfl staff .TfL staff travel have already got reciprocal agreements with other operators. I do not think this will happen. Because you do not need to be an employee of Heathrow to get the discount, just work in the Airport. Even TfL staff who work in the airport can get the discount.

4.)Reduced track access fees for free inter terminal travel / 75% staff discount. This is the most likely solution it reduces the tax burden for employees and allows tfl to save some money too,

 

[matt_world2004]

This is the level of discount for heathrow staff on tfl rail

https://www.heathrow.com/company/heathrow-jobs/commuting-to-heathrow

It is a little bit cheaper than the current discount.

 

[Taunton]

Where does this extraordinary attitude come from, worldwide, that everyone going to an airport is a spendthrift millionaire, and they can be gouged way more than travel anywhere else in the metropolitan area.

Passengers to Bank or Canary Wharf are likely much better paid than the average, and their stations have both cost vast sums in recent times, yet fares to there are just the same as elsewhere.

It's not only London that does this.

 

[coppercapped]

A discount is currently being negotiated. Heathrow runs its own rail service that it can provide a disocunt to its poorly paid employees on

Just to clarify...by no means all of the people who work at Heathrow are employees of Heathrow Airports Ltd., poorly paid or not. In fact only a minority of people working at Heathrow are HAL employees. A quick Google search shows that some 75,000 people work within the Heathrow boundary but HAL employs only some 7,000 people in total, including HQ staff.

 

[Airliner 767]

Thanks everyone for the very detailed and useful update on this..and yes, the Heathrow website has also been updated lately assuming they have been receiving a lot of similar queries on this tipic!

 

[matt_world2004]

Where does this extraordinary attitude come from, worldwide, that everyone going to an airport is a spendthrift millionaire, and they can be gouged way more than travel anywhere else in the metropolitan area.

Yes, I am uncomfortable with it too.

Just to clarify...by no means all of the people who work at Heathrow are employees of Heathrow Airports Ltd., poorly paid or not. In fact only a minority of people working at Heathrow are HAL employees. A quick Google search shows that some 75,000 people work within the Heathrow boundary but HAL employs only some 7,000 people in total, including HQ staff.

Yes, anyone who has an airport ID can get the discounted tickets, these are anyone who works within the grounds of Heathrow Airport for example if you work at W.H Smith Heathrow bus station you will get the discount, (but not if you are outside the grounds of heathrow airport, but on Heathrow Airport owned land, One example of this would be the renaissance hotel, which has signs outside it informing people that they are on land owned by Heathrow airport and bylaws apply, even though it is outside the airport grounds )

I do not know why the poster was complaining about poorly paid Heathrow employees paying full price for their train tickets When:

1.) Millions of poorly paid Londoners in other professions, do the same.
2.) The season ticket/weekly cap price for heathrow tickets is the same as a standard zone 6 ticket.
3.}There are groups of people who are low paid and commute to the airport and are not entitled to an Heathrow connect discount.

 

[jon0844]

Have the fares to Heathrow Connect/Not HEX fares gone or changed in price recently? I was looking and seeing that the Any Permitted/Heathrow Express tickets were the same price, which seems a bit odd.

 

[matt_world2004]

Have the fares to Heathrow Connect/Not HEX fares gone or changed in price recently? I was looking and seeing that the Any Permitted/Heathrow Express tickets were the same price, which seems a bit odd.

No they are remaining unchanged to disensentivise paper ticket usage

What is debateable though is if a single paper ticket with the destination of zone 6 is valid.

 

[methethpropbut]

The next question to ask would then be - what will the fares be like for someone interchanging at Heathrow between Piccadilly / Crossrail?

 

[JonathanH]

The next question to ask would then be - what will the fares be like for someone interchanging at Heathrow between Piccadilly / Crossrail?

It is fair to say that they won't be cheaper than going via Ealing Broadway / Acton Town. There hasn't been any indication yet about Heathrow Crossrail / Piccadilly even being an Out of Station Interchange at any of the three Heathrow stations.

 

[edwin_m]

I assume much of the reason for the employee discount is that Heathrow want to minimise the number of employees driving to the airport. This will be because the mode share of airport travellers is one of the things the government uses to judge them, and because space set aside for employee parking can't be used for anything more lucrative.

 

[Starmill]

What is debateable though is if a single paper ticket with the destination of zone 6 is valid.

You mean a ticket to Zone U1256? That would be valid on London Underground.

 

[Dent]

What is debateable though is if a single paper ticket with the destination of zone 6 is valid.

What ticket are you thinking of?

 

[Skimpot flyer]

A discount is currently being negotiated. Heathrow runs its own rail service that it can provide a disocunt to its poorly paid employees on

Unions often get the sharp end of criticism from media types, but if all cleaners, baggage handlers and support workers currently receiving discounted travel to the airport were union members, they could and should threaten to strike simultaneously. The airport cannot function without these low-paid workers; collective pressure would I’m sure see them getting a good deal on discounted travel

 

[matt_world2004]

What ticket are you thinking of?

The zone u123456 underground ticket. There is currently full interavailability of London Underground tickets on TfL rail in the east and London Overground. I also have seen somewhere that zonal london underground tickets are valid on GwR but not other london zonal tocs that run on non interavailable routea

 

[matt_world2004]

I assume much of the reason for the employee discount is that Heathrow want to minimise the number of employees driving to the airport. This will be because the mode share of airport travellers is one of the things the government uses to judge them, and because space set aside for employee parking can't be used for anything more lucrative.

I think it is to mitigate the effect the fare premium would have on recruitment and retention. Why pay a premium to travel to your job WH Smith in Heathrow Airport when you can £8 a day working in WH Smith hayes.