CrossCountry (XC) coaching stock formations

[Mugby]

Something I'm never quite sure about and would appreciate clarification please:

On a Voyager, assuming coach lettering starts at the Standard end and is A to D (4car) or A to E (5car) which is usually the unreserved carriage and is it always the same one?

On an HST, how are the carriages lettered, is there just one unreserved and which is it?

Thanks for any help, this information isn't given on XC's site.

 

[Silver Cobra]

As far as I'm aware, only the 5-car Super Voyagers have an unreserved coach, which is coach B.

 

[thenorthern]

On Voyagers the 5 car trains go A, B, C, D, E and the 4 car trains go A, C, D, E.

A is first class and B is the unreserved coach and is designed so that if a train that is normally run as a 5 coach train is run as a 4 coach train then people who have a reservation they will still be able to have their seat. Coach C is the 10 min reservation coach and Coach E used to be the quiet coach until 2014.

 

[Jonfun]

4 car Voyagers are ACDF, 5 car Voyagers ABCDF.
B is unreserved, along with a few seats at the coach F end of D and C.
C tends to have the fewest reservations but this is the ten minute reservation carriage.
If you're travelling a long distance, making a Ten Minute Reservation might be worthwhile to save you seat hopping if you're on a busy service.

 

[Huntergreed]

As far as I'm aware, only the 5-car Super Voyagers have an unreserved coach, which is coach B.

Indeed, coach B is the only unreserved coach, only found on the 5 Coach Cross-country Super Voyagers, however there may be available seats, check the black reservation displays

 

[thenorthern]

I don't think High Speed Trains have a specific unreserved coach.

 

[W-on-Sea]

The voyagers do have several seats that it is not possible to reserve (as they aren't numbered.)

I'm not 100% sure the plan at http://help.thetrainline.com/euf/assets/images/Voyager.png is current - but if it, the seats labelled as NR in coaches C and D might be worth aiming for

 

[Mojo]

Indeed, coach B is the only unreserved coach, only found on the 5 Coach Cross-country Super Voyagers, however there may be available seats, check the black reservation displays

There are also some seats near to where the shop used to be (coach D) that don't have any displays and by nature cannot be reserved. Possibly these exist elsewhere on the train too, I'm not sure.

 

[thenorthern]

Best thing to do if you are worried about not getting a seat is to get the 10 min reservation. You can also reserve a seat by sending them a direct message on Twitter even if you don't have a ticket I do it all the time.

 

[Deafdoggie]

As the others, coach B is the only unreservered coach, and applies to both voyagers & HST. However, only the 5 coach voyagers. 4 coach voyagers have no unreserved coach, only a handful of unreserveable seats. HST only has 10 standard seats in coach B!

 

[sheff1]

On Voyagers the 5 car trains go A, B, C, D, E and the 4 car trains go A, C, D, E.

There is no coach E. The lettering jumps from D to F. I have no idea why that is the case.

 

[Mugby]

As the others, coach B is the only unreservered coach, and applies to both voyagers & HST. However, only the 5 coach voyagers. 4 coach voyagers have no unreserved coach, only a handful of unreserveable seats. HST only has 10 standard seats in coach B!

Is coach B a composite or is it a former buffet car?

 

[swt_passenger]

There is no coach E. The lettering jumps from D to F. I have no idea why that is the case.

To allow for the train to be lengthened to six coaches "if ever needed"...

 

[edwin_m]

To allow for the train to be lengthened to six coaches "if ever affordable"...

Fixed that for you.

 

[D1009]

There is no coach E. The lettering jumps from D to F. I have no idea why that is the case.

When Virgin first introduced the Voyagers, they were hoping to get funding for additional vehicles to increase the length of the sets. These would have been lettered E. The anomaly remains to this day on XC, despite the change of franchise owner, though the sets which remained with Virgin on West Coast sets have been relettered.

 

[chemphys]

Coach B was definitely mostly reserved on the 11:40 ex Bournemouth yesterday. One elderly couple were complaining that their station assistance had taken them to carriage D rather than B so I guess it caught them out as well.

I can also confirm there are 4 pairs of non-reservable seats in B at the 'A' end of the carriage.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Is coach B a composite or is it a former buffet car?

Composite. 1st class, a mini-kitchen and then a very small standard class compartment.

chemphys, I've never seen coach B reserved on XC before. I'm genuinely surprised. If they start reserving that carriage it'll be even worse...

 

[221129]

Coach B was definitely mostly reserved on the 11:40 ex Bournemouth yesterday. One elderly couple were complaining that their station assistance had taken them to carriage D rather than B so I guess it caught them out as well.

I can also confirm there are 4 pairs of non-reservable seats in B at the 'A' end of the carriage.

Which unit was It? Or was there a fault in one of the other coaches?

 

[chemphys]

I'm starting to doubt myself now. I could have sworn that we were in B and that the old dears were complaining (quite loudly) that they had reservations in B, but looking at the link posted above, http://help.thetrainline.com/euf/assets/images/Voyager.png
it was definitely F (and not 1st class) in the next carriage.

So unless Virgin had a unit running around with the carriages in the "wrong" order, I'm afraid my memory is playing tricks on me, and we were in D and not B.

 

[jopsuk]

there was a short while that the letters were in a more confusing order wasn't there, and then they got re-lettered?

 

[221129]

I'm starting to doubt myself now. I could have sworn that we were in B and that the old dears were complaining (quite loudly) that they had reservations in B, but looking at the link posted above, http://help.thetrainline.com/euf/assets/images/Voyager.png
it was definitely F (and not 1st class) in the next carriage.

So unless Virgin had a unit running around with the carriages in the "wrong" order, I'm afraid my memory is playing tricks on me, and we were in D and not B.

Are we on about Virgin or CrossCountry now? If CrossCountry then B is definitely unreserved normally.

 

[Jonfun]

So unless Virgin had a unit running around with the carriages in the "wrong" order, I'm afraid my memory is playing tricks on me, and we were in D and not B.

Virgin's Voyager are lettered differently. Starting at the 604xx end (First class), Virgin units are EDCBA, CrossCountry's units are A(B)CDF.
If you were in the second coach from the standard class end on on XC train you'd be in D. If you were in the same coach on a Virgin train you'd be in B.

Interesting fact, just to confuse things, Coach D on both VT and XC units is the same physical type of vehicle (607xx), just in a different place in the formation.

 

[221129]

Interesting fact, just to confuse things, Coach D on both VT and XC units is the same physical type of vehicle (607xx), just in a different place in the formation.

And the internal is completely different

 

[MontyP]

To allow for the train to be lengthened to six coaches "if ever needed"...

If they were hoping to extend to 6 cars in the future, why would they be lettered ABCDF with E saved for the future? Would seem more logical to letter them ABCDE and then just add F later?

 

[221129]

If they were hoping to extend to 6 cars in the future, why would they be lettered ABCDF with E saved for the future? Would seem more logical to letter them ABCDE and then just add F later?

Because then it would like ABCDFE ....

 

[edwin_m]

If they were hoping to extend to 6 cars in the future, why would they be lettered ABCDF with E saved for the future? Would seem more logical to letter them ABCDE and then just add F later?

They would insert the extra coach inside the end coach, so with that arrangement the end coach would have to change from being E to F. This would create confusion during the transition period when some coaches with the same letter have different seating layouts. The same might happen if they didn't lengthen the whole fleet and ended up with sub-fleets that might occasionally get onto the wrong diagram, as they do with the 4-car and 5-car sets now.

 

[MontyP]

They would insert the extra coach inside the end coach, so with that arrangement the end coach would have to change from being E to F. This would create confusion during the transition period when some coaches with the same letter have different seating layouts. The same might happen if they didn't lengthen the whole fleet and ended up with sub-fleets that might occasionally get onto the wrong diagram, as they do with the 4-car and 5-car sets now.

Ah yes, pretty obvious when you think about it. Don't the Virgin pendolino 11-coach trains have a coach X - was this because they never expected to extend beyond 10?

 

[causton]

Ah yes, pretty obvious when you think about it. Don't the Virgin pendolino 11-coach trains have a coach X - was this because they never expected to extend beyond 10?

They have a coach U.

[It is next to coach F, so you can remember easily as the train says F U as it passes ]

 

[Jonfun]

They would insert the extra coach inside the end coach, so with that arrangement the end coach would have to change from being E to F. This would create confusion during the transition period when some coaches with the same letter have different seating layouts. The same might happen if they didn't lengthen the whole fleet and ended up with sub-fleets that might occasionally get onto the wrong diagram, as they do with the 4-car and 5-car sets now.

This has now happened, perhaps unintentionally, with the creation of a new voyager train from the two ex-VT driving cars. Coach C in 221...136 (135?) - which has lost a vehicle - Is actually a coach B. I'm not sure whether the different internal layout causes problems with the reservationa.