CrossCountry Weekend First Upgrade

[Joey Beauchamp]

National Rail says no discounts for Railcards or Children, which I take to mean that if you want to upgrade any qualifying ticket, whether it's a child fare / is Railcard discounted or not, everyone pays the same flat price (depending on length of journey).

However, the only time I've upgraded, on a horribly packed (as usual) train from Birmingham New Street to Bristol Temple Meads, the Train Manager said I didn't need to pay for my then 6 year old. He'd already seen our tickets, so knew (or it could be assumed) my son was over 5 (he's also tall for his age). Was he just doing me a favour (he certainly didn't seem the type) or is there really no charge for children? I'm asking because we may be travelling from Coventry to Southampton Central in March and I'd certainly prefer to be in the spacious environs of First Class with a lovely two person table to play Pass the Pigs and Uno on.

 

[hexagon789]

National Rail says no discounts for Railcards or Children, which I take to mean that if you want to upgrade any qualifying ticket, whether it's a child fare / is Railcard discounted or not, everyone pays the same flat price (depending on length of journey).

However, the only time I've upgraded, on a horribly packed (as usual) train from Birmingham New Street to Bristol Temple Meads, the Train Manager said I didn't need to pay for my then 6 year old. He'd already seen our tickets, so knew (or it could be assumed) my son was over 5 (he's also tall for his age). Was he just doing me a favour (he certainly didn't seem the type) or is there really no charge for children? I'm asking because we may be travelling from Coventry to Southampton Central in March and I'd certainly prefer to be in the spacious environs of First Class with a lovely two person table to play Pass the Pigs and Uno on.

BR fares doesn't list a child fare for the upgrade, only an adult rate at £12.50:

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First Class​ SINGLE​	IXC WEEKEND UPGRADE [XW] XCU​
Fares Period​	From 13 Jan 26​
From​	BIRMINGHAM N ST​	​	​
To​	BRISTOL TEMPLE M​	​	​
Route​	XC ONLY​

PRICE
Fare set by:​	IXC CROSSCOUNTRY​
Passengers per ticket:​	1 adult​
CAPRI code:​	ZBA​
Discount Status​	Status Code (shown on ticket)​	Price​
ADULT​	​	£12.50​

 

[Watershed]

National Rail says no discounts for Railcards or Children, which I take to mean that if you want to upgrade any qualifying ticket, whether it's a child fare / is Railcard discounted or not, everyone pays the same flat price (depending on length of journey).

Yep, that's correct. You can see the applicable cost in BR Fares at the bottom of the first class section as 'IXC Weekend Upg', ticket type code XCU. You'll note that no child fare is defined, and that XCU disappears if you specify a Railcard.

Note that for some journeys (especially short ones, such as Birmingham to Coventry), no upgrade fare is defined. This will typically be where the upgrade would be more expensive than the cost of a normal excess, which in most cases is calculated as the difference between the applicable standard and first class singles.

Also note that on paper at least, you can't get a Weekend Upgrade if you're travelling on an Advance ticket. This is a XC-specific restriction - I don't think any other TOC with Weekend First is that mean. In 90% of cases I've seen TMs turn a blind eye and sell the upgrade anyway since they get commission for it, but if they want to be a stickler for the rules, they could insist on the excess being paid - which for long journeys, is typically quite a lot more expensive.

However, the only time I've upgraded, on a horribly packed (as usual) train from Birmingham New Street to Bristol Temple Meads, the Train Manager said I didn't need to pay for my then 6 year old. He'd already seen our tickets, so knew (or it could be assumed) my son was over 5 (he's also tall for his age). Was he just doing me a favour (he certainly didn't seem the type) or is there really no charge for children?

I think he was doing you a favour. Anyone who requires a ticket (i.e. aged 5+) is required to pay for an upgrade.

I'm asking because we may be travelling from Coventry to Southampton Central in March and I'd certainly prefer to be in the spacious environs of First Class with a lovely two person table to play Pass the Pigs and Uno on.

The cost for that journey would be £15 per person, as per BR Fares. I would work on the assumption you'll both have to pay for it, and be pleasantly surprised if you get another TM who turns a blind eye.

 

[Joey Beauchamp]

The cost for that journey would be £15 per person, as per BR Fares. I would work on the assumption you'll both have to pay for it, and be pleasantly surprised if you get another TM who turns a blind eye.

Thank you! £15 for that length of journey seems an absolute bargain.

My previous upgrade was some time ago and I wasn't really thinking about it at the time - it had been a bit stressful getting on the train and I only decided to sit in First Class as I believed it was surely about to be declassified given the wall of people in the standard coaches. I was very happy to only have to pay £12.50 for both of us to have a relaxing journey.

I genuinely think the train manager had either misinterpreted the rules or had no idea what a 6 year old looks like and just thought "small child - no fare". He was very serious and was throwing people out of the carriage if they didn't pay up, certainly didn't seem like the sort of character to let someone off.

 

[Watershed]

Thank you! £15 for that length of journey seems an absolute bargain.

My previous upgrade was some time ago and I wasn't really thinking about it at the time - it had been a bit stressful getting on the train and I only decided to sit in First Class as I believed it was surely about to be declassified given the wall of people in the standard coaches. I was very happy to only have to pay £12.50 for both of us to have a relaxing journey.

I genuinely think the train manager had either misinterpreted the rules or had no idea what a 6 year old looks like and just thought "small child - no fare". He was very serious and was throwing people out of the carriage if they didn't pay up, certainly didn't seem like the sort of character to let someone off.

XC first class almost never gets declassified in my experience, and as you say, it is usually strictly enforced by the TM or First Class Host, sometimes even standing at the door to prevent standard class passengers using it as a cut-through.

I think XC's view is that because overcrowding is the norm on their services, they would be declassifying first class almost all the time otherwise. I can kind of understand that, but on the other hand it still rankles somewhat that nearly a quarter of the capacity of a 4-coach Voyager is effectively 'wasted' as far as standard class passengers are concerned!

 

[Joey Beauchamp]

XC first class almost never gets declassified in my experience, and as you say, it is usually strictly enforced by the TM or First Class Host, sometimes even standing at the door to prevent standard class passengers using it as a cut-through.

I think XC's view is that because overcrowding is the norm on their services, they would be declassifying first class almost all the time otherwise. I can kind of understand that, but on the other hand it still rankles somewhat that nearly a quarter of the capacity of a 4-coach Voyager is effectively 'wasted' as far as standard class passengers are concerned!

The reason I wrongly believed it would get declassified is that we'd recently got on a four or five coach Voyager at Tamworth, heading to Sheffield. It was obvious from the amount of passengers on the platform (and previous experience) that it was going to be packed, so we went to the very front of the train, planning to stand in the First Class vestibule. Unfortunately for us, a member of staff immediately said we couldn't stand there because he needed the area to dispatch the train (this was a weird reason as there was plenty of room for him to do that, I'd have expected him to ask us if we had First Class tickets). We walked through First Class, past several empty seats, to a jam packed vestibule. As soon as we had squeezed past a few people, an announcement was made that First Class was declassified. We turned round, but were only quick enough to get one of the empty seats we had just walked past. It was very frustrating!

 

[hexagon789]

The reason I wrongly believed it would get declassified is that we'd recently got on a four or five coach Voyager at Tamworth, heading to Sheffield. It was obvious from the amount of passengers on the platform (and previous experience) that it was going to be packed, so we went to the very front of the train, planning to stand in the First Class vestibule. Unfortunately for us, a member of staff immediately said we couldn't stand there because he needed the area to dispatch the train (this was a weird reason as there was plenty of room for him to do that, I'd have expected him to ask us if we had First Class tickets). We walked through First Class, past several empty seats, to a jam packed vestibule. As soon as we had squeezed past a few people, an announcement was made that First Class was declassified. We turned round, but were only quick enough to get one of the empty seats we had just walked past. It was very frustrating!

Technically the First Class vestibule is also First Class accommodation, we've seen people get in trouble for standing there a few times on the forum on Standard Class tickets.

 

[Watershed]

Technically the First Class vestibule is also First Class accommodation, we've seen people get in trouble for standing there a few times on the forum on Standard Class tickets.

That depends on the signage. The vestibule around the accessible loo, at the 'standard class' end of coach A on a Voyager, is not signed as first class and standard class passengers often stand/sit there. The issue is more with the vestibule at the cab-end of coach A, which TMs often treat as private (it was "not in public use" during Covid and that seems to have stuck around) and thus don't like people standing there regardless.

 

[Joey Beauchamp]

Technically the First Class vestibule is also First Class accommodation, we've seen people get in trouble for standing there a few times on the forum on Standard Class tickets.

Yes, I realise this, that's why I was surprised not by being asked to move, but by the reason given.

My usual technique if boarding at a station with a big churn of passengers (not Tamworth), is to board using the (other) First Class door and then enter standard class as the last person leaves to exit. Once I sent my toddler down almost under peoples legs with instructions to sit in the first two seats together he came across!