CrossCountry Trains' rolling stock (old vs new)

[A0]

I had an appalling experience on a packed 4 car Voyager from Birmingham to Bournemouth about 6 weeks ago. It was so cramped and hot (aircon failure) that I was in a right state by the time we were an hour or so into the journey - I've not felt that ill during a trip for a long time.

I was sufficiently freaked that I even tried to contact XC (by Twitter, then email) while travelling to report how crowded it was. They replied with platitudes 3 weeks later, and are now firmly on my s**t list.

Needless to say, the next time we travel we're going via London. I'd rather deal with SWT and Virgin/Chiltern than XC anytime.

What did you expect them to do in response to your twitter message? Magic up a different train with more seats and working aircon :roll: or was it simply a play for 'compensayshun'.......

 

[DarloRich]

sigh

This is a post that the cultish, almost brain washed, new is best brigade wont like but here goes.

The old trains were better from a passenger comfort and service point of view. Cross Country replaced these trains with new ones that weren't as good and weren't suitable for long distance services.

Is anyone prepared to say that a Voyager is nicer to spend time in and more comfortable to travel in than a MKIII coach? Anyone?

Sorry but the "beloved" Voyagers simply are not a patch on the stock they replaced. They have shoddily specified and built, uncomfortable, unpleasant interiors that make train journey with XC a torture rather than a pleasant and relaxing way to travel

This dinosaur is now standing by for the assault in praise of the voyager from the fan boys .............

 

[Jordeh]

sigh

This is a post that the cultish, almost brain washed, new is best brigade wont like but here goes.

The old trains were better from a passenger comfort and service point of view. Cross Country replaced these trains with new ones that weren't as good and weren't suitable for long distance services.

Is anyone prepared to say that a Voyager is nicer to spend time in and more comfortable to travel in than a MKIII coach? Anyone?

Sorry but the "beloved" Voyagers simply are not a patch on the stock they replaced. They have shoddily specified and built, uncomfortable, unpleasant interiors that make train journey with XC a torture rather than a pleasant and relaxing way to travel

This dinosaur is now standing by for the assault in praise of the voyager from the fan boys .............

From what I've read on here, most people do tend to agree with you anyway despite your equally "brain washed" and "cultish" post. It's your preposterous and all together provocative analogy comparing a Voyager to "torture" which grinds my gears. Your post is too harsh to describe any train on the network, even a pacer.

 

[DarloRich]

From what I've read on here, most people do tend to agree with you anyway despite your equally "brain washed" and "cultish" post. It's your preposterous and all together provocative analogy comparing a Voyager to "torture" which grinds my gears. Your post is too harsh to describe any train on the network, even a pacer.

Try Edinburgh to Plymouth on one. Then tell me it doesn't border on torture. You can not work as the vibration makes the screen of your laptop hard to see, the seats offer no comfort or support after about 90 minutes, there are very few facilities available and the each part resonates with a subtle, yet perceptible, difference!

A s i have said many times. I have no problem with new. However, why cant we improve on a 40 year old train with regard to passenger comfort?

BTW if you think that is proactive you haven't lived

 

[ainsworth74]

Try Edinburgh to Plymouth on one. Then tell me it doesn't border on torture. You can not work as the vibration makes the screen of your laptop hard to see, the seats offer no comfort or support after about 90 minutes, there are very few facilities available and the each part resonates with a subtle, yet perceptible, difference!

A member of this forum went from Aberdeen to Penzance on one and reported that he only started getting a bit uncomfortable around Bristol and from what he said of the experience I wouldn't say he was tortured.

 

[DarloRich]

A member of this forum went from Aberdeen to Penzance on one and reported that he only started getting a bit uncomfortable around Bristol and from what he said of the experience I wouldn't say he was tortured.

he has a better bum than me then!
(or they got to him to with their brian washing technology. They will never take me alive!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

Honestly, Doncaster to Darlington or Derby - Leeds is about all i can take. Yet why is the 222 so much nicer to be on? I did a long journey yesterday on EMT and had no issues. Why is the Voyager less nice?

 

[Jordeh]

A s i have said many times. I have no problem with new. However, why cant we improve on a 40 year old train with regard to passenger comfort?

BTW if you think that is proactive you haven't lived

Well it got me to reply and despite reading the forum on a daily basis for 2 years, few posts manage to get me doing that

Honestly, Doncaster to Darlington or Derby - Leeds is about all i can take. Yet why is the 222 so much nicer to be on? I did a long journey yesterday on EMT and had no issues. Why is the Voyager less nice?

Because the 222 is newer and better! And probably because you're fairly irrational regarding your issues with a Voyager, the vibration issues are exaggerated (Admittedly worse than a Mk3, given the engines underneath but still workable).

 

[DarloRich]

Because the 222 is newer and better! And probably because you're fairly irrational regarding your issues with a Voyager, the vibration issues are exaggerated (Admittedly worse than a Mk3, given the engines underneath but still workable).

I disagree on the vibration issue but i do wonder whether a midlife refit for the Voyager will improve things, perhaps by incorporating some of the lessons learnt with the 222.

Even changing the seats would be a start.

 

[ainsworth74]

Yet why is the 222 so much nicer to be on? I did a long journey yesterday on EMT and had no issues. Why is the Voyager less nice?

My understanding is that it's a combination of Bombardier learning lessons from the Voyagers and also, I believe, because there's no question of tilting Meridans they were able to stick some more stuff underneath than they'd been able to on the Voyagers. Meaning that there's a bit more room in the passenger compartment of the train.

I also share you hope that Voyagers will get a serious interior overhaul (preferably tearing it out and starting again). I don't have quite such a vitriolic reaction to them but I still think there's plenty of room for improvement (and subject to those improvements being made they'd be good trains ).

 

[DarloRich]

I think, mechanically and engineering wise, they are fantastic trains. I think the interior is awful.

 

[pinkpanther]

What did you expect them to do in response to your twitter message? Magic up a different train with more seats and working aircon :roll: or was it simply a play for 'compensayshun'.......

No - just trying to get them to engage with their customers in real time (in the same way as modern, responsive, organisations typically use social media).

A public and timely acknowledgement that there was a problem, and that they accepted it was their fault to some degree would have gone a long way to make me feel more positive about the conditions, even if nothing could be done right then (which I know - I'm not stupid).

Instead, their patronising and dismissive email several weeks later has lead me to conclude that they're a bunch or arrogant s**ts and my business is better off going elseware.

Their loss.

 

[Goatboy]

Try Edinburgh to Plymouth on one. Then tell me it doesn't border on torture. You can not work as the vibration makes the screen of your laptop hard to see

I'm no Voyager fan but I always use my laptop onboard a Voyager and don't have this problem. The vibration is annoying but not for this reason.

 

[AlexS]

So let's just put that to the test.
1 x 7-car cross country HST (as operational prior to the arrival of the Voyagers) = 384 standard class seats and 48 first class.
1 x 220 as built = 162 standard and 26 first class
1 x 221 as built (5-car) = 224 standard and 26 first class seats.

Therefore, if each hour you have one 220 and one 221, instead of a single HST, then you have 2 extra standard seats and 4 extra first class seats. Of course, more often than not it will be 2 x 220s per hour, so that is 60 LESS standard class seats, and 4 more first class. So, I reckon the HST would have coped just fine - especially with the "cram them in" seats installed into the five remaining HST sets.

And also ineffectual in that if, for arguments sake, and purely as an example, you have an xx12 to Plymouth/Penzance and an xx42 to Bristol out of Birmingham, and the majority of the passengers get on the first xx12 service rather than the xx42 service, you are still screwed, as the theory of provided more trains falls apart if the passengers don't play ball and balance the loadings.

 

[transmanche]

And also ineffectual in that if, for arguments sake, and purely as an example, you have an xx12 to Plymouth/Penzance and an xx42 to Bristol out of Birmingham, and the majority of the passengers get on the first xx12 service rather than the xx42 service, you are still screwed, as the theory of provided more trains falls apart if the passengers don't play ball and balance the loadings.

But that's where advance ticket allocations come into play to influence travel patterns. E.g. travelling Kings Cross to Newcastle, cheaper advance fares always seem to be available on the xx.30 departures, than the faster xx.00 departures.

 

[LexyBoy]

Having travelled from Reading to Glasgow and back at the weekend, I can say that I'm gradually warming to Voyagers. Maybe that's just because I don't get to use any nicer trains (commute is on FGW HSTs which I am no fan of), but certainly without chronic overcrowding they are pleasant enough, with lovely big windows and quite a smooth ride. I'll admit that eventually my feet/lower legs did start to feel a little numb from the engine vibration but this was probably not until half way through a 6 hour journey.

The interior isn't great but it's fine - my main gripes are the lack of luggage space due to the airline seating and tiny overhead racks, and the lack of any catering to speak of. The trolley gets in the way, can't make proper tea or have a decent range of food and IME is often only on board for a small part of the journey, so you might not even see it. To make matters worse the new accomodation area where the shop was is rubbish, hard seats and no windows! No doubts that capacity is the main issue with them (though I still think DMUs aren't suitable for long distance travel).

 

[sprinterguy]

To make matters worse the new accomodation area where the shop was is rubbish, hard seats and no windows!

That can certainly be an issue with sitting in luggage racks

 

[LexyBoy]

That can certainly be an issue with sitting in luggage racks

But we're told to keep our luggage in sight at all times, so they couldn't be luggage racks could they?