CrossCountry towards Ipswich\Norwich

[lancededcena]

Is it possible and practical to introduce CrossCountry services from Birmingham to Ipswich and Norwich. The infrastructure seems to be there already so I'm suprised CrossCountry did not see this opportunity, unless Greater Anglia has a moderation of competition in the Ipswich - Ely line, but I'm not sure if thats the case here as East West Rail will be operating services to Oxford. Maybe the Birmingham - Norwich route will be an alternative to the eastern end of the Liverpool - Norwich route? However I don't see that being popular either.

 

[JonathanH]

Three routes from Peterborough and Ely - Cambridge, Ipswich and Norwich - the traffic and line capacity dictates that there is one service to each - if Birmingham goes to Ipswich or Norwich it doesn't go to Cambridge.

Ipswich doesn't yet support an hourly service to Peterborough. Norwich supports a Stansted train and a Liverpool train. Cambridge supports an hourly service to Birmingham. There is also freight and the Kings Lynn route to fit in.

There is only so much capacity through Ely so it isnt really a surprise that there isnt a service from Birmingham to Ipswich and Norwich.

Of course, once upon a time, there was a complex mixed timetable that saw all of the Anglian destinations linked to the Birmingham and Nottingham routes.

 

[coppercapped]

Is it possible and practical to introduce CrossCountry services from Birmingham to Ipswich and Norwich. The infrastructure seems to be there already so I'm suprised CrossCountry did not see this opportunity, unless Greater Anglia has a moderation of competition in the Ipswich - Ely line, but I'm not sure if thats the case here as East West Rail will be operating services to Oxford. Maybe the Birmingham - Norwich route will be an alternative to the eastern end of the Liverpool - Norwich route? However I don't see that being popular either.

The premise of your question assumes that CrossCountry has the commercial freedom to introduce such a service.

It doesn't.

The services to be operated by the successful franchisee are defined by the Department of Transport in excruciating detail in the 'Invitation to Tender' documents. The bids are written on this basis and these, and only these, services will be operated as specified in the franchise contract documents.

The first generation of franchises left a lot more open for the franchisee[1], but as soon as the Strategic Rail Authority came on the scene, even in its 'Shadow' form, such freedoms vanished.

[1] Look, for example, at all the additional trains introduced by GNER in its early days as the franchise allowed a quite free hand as long as (a) the offering didn't drop below that offered by BR in its later days and (b) the franchisee didn't ask for any more subsidy from the Government.

 

[London Trains]

In another thread I did have an idea for this which involves dividing the Liverpool to Norwich service into lots of separate parts:

Extend the current Birmingham to Leicester stopper to Norwich (so no extra paths needed west of Leicester), replacing the Liverpool to Norwich from Peterborough eastwards, and also providing Melton Mowbray, Oakham and Stamford with a 2nd tph.

Post HS2, run a Kings Cross to Nottingham service that calls at Stevenage, Peterborough and Grantham, replacing the Nottingham to Peterborough part of the Liverpool to Norwich service.

Have TPE operate the Liverpool to Nottingham part of the service.

 

[lancededcena]

The premise of your question assumes that CrossCountry has the commercial freedom to introduce such a service.

It doesn't.

The services to be operated by the successful franchisee are defined by the Department of Transport in excruciating detail in the 'Invitation to Tender' documents. The bids are written on this basis and these, and only these, services will be operated as specified in the franchise contract documents.

The first generation of franchises left a lot more open for the franchisee[1], but as soon as the Strategic Rail Authority came on the scene, even in its 'Shadow' form, such freedoms vanished.

[1] Look, for example, at all the additional trains introduced by GNER in its early days as the franchise allowed a quite free hand as long as (a) the offering didn't drop below that offered by BR in its later days and (b) the franchisee didn't ask for any more subsidy from the Government.

Hypothetically speaking, without government restrictions in place, is it technically and logistically possible and throwing government restrictions in place, would the Department of Transport see this route as a viable option?

 

[Ianno87]

Hypothetically speaking, without government restrictions in place, is it technically and logistically possible and throwing government restrictions in place, would the Department of Transport see this route as a viable option?

XC could introduce such a service, provided that all of the following are met:

-They have the rolling stock
-They have the drivers
-They still provide other locations with the required services in their Train Service Requirement with DfT
-There is a commercial case for the service (i.e. it won't lose money)
-It is not primarily abstractive from existing franchised TOCs
-There is capacity for this service not to the excessive detriment of other potential strategic uses of that capacity (e.g. Felixstowe freight)

At least one of those (probably more) is likelt to be "No".

 

[30907]

Three routes from Peterborough and Ely - Cambridge, Ipswich and Norwich - the traffic and line capacity dictates that there is one service to each - if Birmingham goes to Ipswich or Norwich it doesn't go to Cambridge.

Ipswich doesn't yet support an hourly service to Peterborough. Norwich supports a Stansted train and a Liverpool train. Cambridge supports an hourly service to Birmingham. There is also freight and the Kings Lynn route to fit in.

There is only so much capacity through Ely so it isnt really a surprise that there isnt a service from Birmingham to Ipswich and Norwich.

Of course, once upon a time, there was a complex mixed timetable that saw all of the Anglian destinations linked to the Birmingham and Nottingham routes.

In the 70s and into the 80s, the main service was Birmingham-Norwich with a daily Cambridge, plus the Harwich-Manchester (originally via Lincoln). That was before the Regional Railways revival.