CrossCountry sleeper services?

[TheGuy77]

Considering the Edinburgh-Plymouth service on CrossCountry is 10 hours long, and with CrossCountry serving famous and historic places like Aberdeen, Edinburgh, Plymouth & Bristol, I reckon that a sleeper service would be perfect for CrossCountry. The only bad thing about it would be the quality of the rooms; would it match with the derelict, 23-year-old interiors? I hope not.

 

[Sun Chariot]

Considering the Edinburgh-Plymouth service on CrossCountry is 10 hours long, and with CrossCountry serving famous and historic places like Aberdeen, Edinburgh, Plymouth & Bristol, I reckon that a sleeper service would be perfect for CrossCountry. The only bad thing about it would be the quality of the rooms; would it match with the derelict, 23-year-old interiors? I hope not.

Until the mid-1980s, a sleeper did indeed run between Edinburgh and Plymouth. It fell victim to "not profitable enough".

 

[aar0]

I long for the return of the Swansea - Newcastle sleeper. I imagine it was a financial basket case though.

 

[Sun Chariot]

Some useful info on these threads too :

Historical Sleeper Routes

I have been having a discussion with a friend of mine who says he travelled all the way to Mallaig on the Sleeper. Has this ever been the case or has it only ever run to Fort William or occasionally to Oban

www.railforums.co.uk

New routes for sleeper trains

I was reflecting that a sleeper between London and Manchester would be absolutely ideal for being able to go to events that end in the evening, without having to book a hotel. A sleeper leaving at around midnight, going via Coventry, Birmingham, up to Manchester, then maybe Liverpool would be...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[30907]

Until the mid-1980s, a sleeper did indeed run between Edinburgh and Plymouth. It fell victim to...

the loss of its major customer, the Navy between Devonport and Rosyth.

 

[Clansman]

There's only 3 ways that you're getting a new sleeper service again in the UK:

1. If it's profitable to run the service - which would in turn require a high markup for the berths or having more seated passengers than in berths.

2. If there is a wider economic incentive to justify a loss making sleeper - such as the Caledonian Sleeper spreading more economic benefits to rural Scotland than what costs to run the service itself, despite incurring an operating loss.

3. Ideology - The political will or indeed a private sector will from a rogue rich enthusiast) to subsidise a service regardless of the financial benefits or implications, but more of principal for whatever reason.


I don't think any of XC services could find a latching to any of those three in the current political and economic climate anyway.

I think the most you'd get out of anything would be running overnight services with the current day stock between the busiest routes - much like how Lumo's latest evening service from London to Edinburgh shows that with the right price you can pack out a train with a 1am or 2am arrival.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

It would also have to be diesel hauled throughout.

 

[class26]

Considering the Edinburgh-Plymouth service on CrossCountry is 10 hours long, and with CrossCountry serving famous and historic places like Aberdeen, Edinburgh, Plymouth & Bristol, I reckon that a sleeper service would be perfect for CrossCountry. The only bad thing about it would be the quality of the rooms; would it match with the derelict, 23-year-old interiors? I hope not.

Not sure where you get 10 hours from,. most seem to take 8 hrs 40 minutes

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Until the mid-1980s, a sleeper did indeed run between Edinburgh and Plymouth. It fell victim to "not profitable enough".

The mid 1990s it lasted to.
Wasn’t axed to lack of profitability but it didn’t suit the then to be privatised XC operation.

 

[Sun Chariot]

The mid 1990s it lasted to.
Wasn’t axed to lack of profitability but it didn’t suit the then to be privatised XC operation.

Oh did it last that long? That's frustrating. I was trying to use it in 1988 and 1990 - all line Rail Rovers - but I couldn't find it in the WTT of the time

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Oh did it last that long? That's frustrating. I was trying to use it in 1988 and 1990 - all line Rail Rovers - but I couldn't find it in the WTT of the time

It finished with the May 1995 timetable change.

 

[Helvellyn]

A combination of the emergence of a cohesive (or at least semi-cohesive) motorway/trunk road network, much earlier/later trains and quality budget hotels all helped kill off a lot of Sleeper services. I can't see any TOC, even under GBR, bringing in new overnight services and I'm unaware of any Open Access operator even proposing this type of service.

It'll be interesting to see how long the Night Riveria lasts because whilst the Mark 3 have had a fairly recent refurb they are now forty years old and will need replaced in the next decade. It's a shame no option to do an add-on order to the CAF fleet for the Caledonian Sleeper was explored. I dread to think how the business case to replace the Mark 3 Sleepers and Class 57s will be looked at for what will be a very small micro fleet.

 

[Mark J]

An XC seated sleeper service, with a coffee and biscuit for breakfast?

No thanks!

 

[Shimbleshanks]

An XC seated sleeper service, with a coffee and biscuit for breakfast?

No thanks!

Well, to be fair, that's all you ever got on the old British Rail sleepers in the 1970s.

 

[Mark J]

Well, to be fair, that's all you ever got on the old British Rail sleepers in the 1970s.

Except prices were a lot cheaper then!

 

[Rescars]

Well, to be fair, that's all you ever got on the old British Rail sleepers in the 1970s.

You got a free newspaper too!

 

[JonnyB]

I think Easyjet have sewn up the business market between Bristol and Edinburgh/Glasgow (the main passenger flow on the old sleeper service), and possibly a lot of the leisure market. Although an attractive idea, a sleeper service would be unlikely to be able to compete effectively.

 

[zwk500]

Considering the Edinburgh-Plymouth service on CrossCountry is 10 hours long, and with CrossCountry serving famous and historic places like Aberdeen, Edinburgh, Plymouth & Bristol, I reckon that a sleeper service would be perfect for CrossCountry.

The problem is there isn't much demand for end-to-end travel. XC serves many major cities en route and nobody's going to want to get on a sleeper for only a couple of hours between E.g. Scotland and Leeds, or Birmingham and Bristol. People are equally as unlikely to want to stay up to 3am to board the sleeper.
Any hypothetical sleeper needs a big 'empty' journey section to allow a decent chance of some sleep, otherwise you may as well just be on the first day train. I can get up at 6am in Bristol and be at my Manchester office for an 11am meeting.