Crosscountry / MG11 ??

[reb0118]

This is a very common scenario throughout the network. Viz:-

1) Passenger starts their journey at an non barricaded station without pre purchasing.

2) Passenger changes trains at an interchange station with barriers.

3) When asked for his ticket on the second train the passenger will request a ticket from the interchange station.

4) The guard will query this as it would be highly unlikely that the passenger started there without a ticket and managed to get through the barriers.

5) The passenger may claim that he arrived at the interchange on a different train, that is fine if he can prove it by showing a ticket, pass, or other lawful authority - otherwise he will be treated firmly, fairly, but robustly my me and my ilk.



All this A, B, & C, drivel can be confusing. Simply buy your ticket(s) at the first opportunity and you will have no further problems. Whether you buy one through ticket or a combination of tickets do it at the same time - anything else will look suspicious.

This has certainly been a steep learning curve from the OP.

 

[CheesyChips]

Whilst I'm not defending the actions of the OP nor taking a stance on the overall matter, I do think that holding the beleif that one TOC's tickets can't be used on another's train is entirely plausible and rational.

The railway is massively fragmented, trains carry different branding, the services are often announced on platforms as 'Cross country service to...' and station staff wear TOC specific uniforms and pass you to the relevant company when it suits them (as the Virgin staff did with the OP in this thread).

Approach station staff to organise alternative transport when the last train of the day is cancelled and at that time anybody suggesting that TOCs provide a unified network would sound laughable.

There's meant to be a unified network, but don't be naive enough to pretend that there actually is.

 

[techno]

I have seen, on several occasions, people having to buy new tickets because of them not being valid on their service. As a bystander, I obviously don't know the exact tickets these people have bought but it does come across that there is some bar on certain services. Further to this point, there is a northern rail service between point B and C, so I thought it reasonable to assume that I would be limited to that service (which departed too late for me to get to my destination on time).

 

[3270]

True, I think there is some confusion with folk thinking that the OP was requesting split tickets to save money (or even some cynically thinking he was doing it to save on a whole leg altogether....) rather than his erroneously held belief that he had to buy separate tickets as he was travelling on two separate TOCs.

Indeed. Maybe the OP thought trains were like buses. If I were making a journey involving two different bus companies I would expect to buy two seperate tickets, one on each bus. I certainly wouldn't expect the first bus driver to sell me a ticket for the second bus if the latter was operated by a different company.

 

[plymothian]

Don't forget TOC only tickets...

A lot of people short fare on advance tickets too as
a) they cannot get an advance to/from their local station
b) mistaken belief that if there is no difference in fare, then they are covered

Many people do not realise that any station, guard, TE etc can sell you a ticket for anywhere on the network and beyond (with the exception of advance tickets on board).

 

[AlterEgo]

That's all that really matters. It is your responsibility to purchase a ticket at the first opportunity - which was at 'Station A'. The fact that you have sometimes been given an opportunity to correct this omission later in your journey doesn't absolve you of this obligation.

Bear this in mind in any correspondence with XC.

While this is true, XC don't have any proof he started at A because he threw his ticket away. In fact it sounds like they didn't believe him.

The ticketing facilities at Station B may be more relevant as XC may cite him for avoiding the fare between B and C, disregarding A entirely.

OP: tell us the stations!

 

[najaB]

The ticketing facilities at Station B may be more relevant as XC may cite him for avoiding the fare between B and C, disregarding A entirely.

The OP stated in post #9 that there are ticket barriers at 'B'. While there are a lot of stations I haven't visited, I'm yet to come across one that has barriers but no ticket vending facilities.

 

[gray1404]

Why does the OP not want to give station names? Why? Would be so much easier to be given better advise. This is advice which could prove useful given the fact there may be pending legal proceedings against you. Also, please can you give times of trains you travelled on given the ticket office at your starting station is only part time possibly.

 

[techno]

Why does the OP not want to give station names? Why? Would be so much easier to be given better advise. This is advice which could prove useful given the fact there may be pending legal proceedings against you. Also, please can you give times of trains you travelled on given the ticket office at your starting station is only part time possibly.

I could have bought a ticket at station A. It's a manned service desk. I'm fully aware of that and it was open at the time I arrived, but with only one minute before the train arrived (which is on the other side of the platform) I would not have made it in time. The reason why I didn't buy a ticket at station B was you need s ticket in the first place to get through the barrier (an electronic one) get to the ticket office and There are no machines internally on the platforms - hence why I had to ask for a ticket on the second train.

 

[MikeWh]

We need to know the names of the stations. I do not like these station A, B, C type posts.

Why does the OP not want to give station names? Why? Would be so much easier to be given better advise. This is advice which could prove useful given the fact there may be pending legal proceedings against you. Also, please can you give times of trains you travelled on given the ticket office at your starting station is only part time possibly.

Why do you need to know the names of the stations? Why?

You need to lose your sense of injustice. If the OP doesn't want to provide station names then that is up to them. Yes our advice could be more tailored if more information is given, but we have no right to demand it. And certainly not twice!

 

[gray1404]

Why do you need to know the names of the stations? Why?

You need to lose your sense of injustice. If the OP doesn't want to provide station names then that is up to them. Yes our advice could be more tailored if more information is given, but we have no right to demand it. And certainly not twice!

Mike,

There is so "sense of injustice" so lets not get things personal and out of context. I am merely saying that yes, we could give more tailored advise if we knew the station names or any special circumstances that may have applied (e.g. planned booking office closure). Also, better advise could be given on the best fare to get for a future journey.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I could have bought a ticket at station A. It's a manned service desk. I'm fully aware of that and it was open at the time I arrived, but with only one minute before the train arrived (which is on the other side of the platform) I would not have made it in time. The reason why I didn't buy a ticket at station B was you need s ticket in the first place to get through the barrier (an electronic one) get to the ticket office and There are no machines internally on the platforms - hence why I had to ask for a ticket on the second train.

I am afraid Cross Country have you bang to rights then. You must purchase your ticket before boarding when facilities are available. As there was a ticket office at your station you could have got whatever tickets you wanted (be that two separate tickets or a though ticket to your final destination). The first report that was submitted by XC should have been enough for you to realise this and correct your behavior. The fact that you continued to walk past an open ticket office and board the train at station A and then again pass though a station with ticket sell facilities at station B may be viewed very seriously by XC.

Excuses like: I was running late and would have missed the train, I didn't realise if I got a ticket from Northern it would not be valid on XC, I have always been able to get my ticket on the train before etc... are simply not valid.

You really should have learnt your lesson after the first conversation with the RPI. I am afraid the best you can hope for here is an out of court settlement. Although it may be that they decide to proceed straight to prosecution. The best you can do now is wait for a letter to arrive in the post. Once you receive that then you can post the details here and get advise on how respond. Also, get saving as this will most likely cost you a fair bit indeed.

And please, do not board a train without a valid ticket ever again if the station you are starting out at has facilities to enable you to buy one.

 

[sheff1]

Many people do not realise any station, guard, TE etc can sell you a ticket for anywhere on the network and beyond (with the exception of advance tickets on board).

This is not true. Many guards on certain TOCs cannot sell any tickets at all. Many stations do not sell the full range of tickets from that station, let alone from another station.

I am not sure what you mean by "the network", but if you are referring to the National Rail network then are no stations which could sell tickets for all places beyond the network.

Not relevant to this thread, of course, but I would not like to see future readers getting a false impression.

 

[techno]

Mike,

There is so "sense of injustice" so lets not get things personal and out of context. I am merely saying that yes, we could give more tailored advise if we knew the station names or any special circumstances that may have applied (e.g. planned booking office closure). Also, better advise could be given on the best fare to get for a future journey.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


I am afraid Cross Country have you bang to rights then. You must purchase your ticket before boarding when facilities are available. As there was a ticket office at your station you could have got whatever tickets you wanted (be that two separate tickets or a though ticket to your final destination). The first report that was submitted by XC should have been enough for you to realise this and correct your behavior. The fact that you continued to walk past an open ticket office and board the train at station A and then again pass though a station with ticket sell facilities at station B may be viewed very seriously by XC.

Excuses like: I was running late and would have missed the train, I didn't realise if I got a ticket from Northern it would not be valid on XC, I have always been able to get my ticket on the train before etc... are simply not valid.

You really should have learnt your lesson after the first conversation with the RPI. I am afraid the best you can hope for here is an out of court settlement. Although it may be that they decide to proceed straight to prosecution. The best you can do now is wait for a letter to arrive in the post. Once you receive that then you can post the details here and get advise on how respond. Also, get saving as this will most likely cost you a fair bit indeed.

And please, do not board a train without a valid ticket ever again if the station you are starting out at has facilities to enable you to buy one.

Granted, but the first incident was misunderstanding as to the validity of the ticket across the two services.. since then I bought one ticket... the second incident was not because of the same error, just that i simply didn't have a ticket on board and they didn't allow me to buy one..
What can I do? NOTHING!
It's extremely unfortunate that there is no deference, but I can only mitigate the circumstances.
Apparently Transport Investigation Ltd are dealing with it now.
Should I write to them now with some sort of settlement? Or should I wait for a letter first?

 

[AlterEgo]

They didn't allow you to buy one because you exhibited "pay when challenged" behaviour. Surely you can see that?

Does station C have barriers? Which station is it?

 

[techno]

They didn't allow you to buy one because you exhibited "pay when challenged" behaviour. Surely you can see that?

Does station C have barriers? Which station is it?

It had people barriers every day up until about 2 months ago.
People would buy tickets if they had to leave the station if they didn't already have one.
Now they put in random stops about 2 times a week randomly.

Evading purchasing ticket is basically a practical impossibility.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
i've gone around my house today and gathered as many tickets as I can find that I've left lying around which shows that i've been maintaining purchasing a single ticket for the whole journey.. obviously, i've not kept all of them for every day but surely this can help my case?

 

[gray1404]

I think you need to stop making these excises and start admitting your mistakes and the seriousness of what you have done. Otherwise this thread will continue to go around in circles.

 

[najaB]

Obviously, i've not kept all of them for every day but surely this can help my case?

Nope. Not at all. Having a ticket for Monday and another for Wednesday does nothing to prove that you bought one on Tuesday.

And even if you could show that you currently have a ticket for Tuesday, it doesn't mean that you had it when the inspector asked to see it, which is the likely offence you'll be charged with.

 

[gray1404]

The best you can do now is wait for a letter to arrive in the post (be that from XC or their agent - Transport Investigations - I company I have no time for personally!). Once you receive that then you can post the details here and get advise on how respond.

 

[techno]

I think you need to stop making these excises and start admitting your mistakes and the seriousness of what you have done. Otherwise this thread will continue to go around in circles.

The best you can do now is wait for a letter to arrive in the post (be that from XC or their agent - Transport Investigations - I company I have no time for personally!). Once you receive that then you can post the details here and get advise on how respond.

why do you have no time for TI Ltd?

 

[cuccir]

A point to note is that these investigations can take several months, so this may go quiet for a little while.

 

[222007]

I have as staff been in this situation where i caught a person on day 1 and having dealt with them for ticketless travel warned them in future they MUST purchase a ticket before boarding the train. Imagine my amazement when the following day i caught the very same person again with no ticket. Unfortunately although not identical to the OP situation there are similarities to this situation and a successful prosecution was made.

I'd suggest waiting for XC to get in touch but i strongly advise the OP to purchase tickets before boarding at station A even if it means arriving a minute or two earlier because it would save future embarrassment

 

[DaveNewcastle]

I strongly agree with this:

I'd suggest waiting for XC to get in touch but i strongly advise the OP to purchase tickets before boarding at station A even if it means arriving a minute or two earlier because it would save future embarrassment

. . . but I will add that it's not only embarrassment that might be averted!

 

[Rich McLean]

Deleted

 

[yorkie]

I agree with others that techno should have asked for (all) the ticket(s) required for the entire journey at the first available opportunity.

Also, you may be required to show all your tickets for your entire journey at any time, so don't throw them away during the journey.

(In practice, you may only have to show a relevant ticket, but that doesn't change the above fact)

In Simple terms for the OP:

In future, arrive at Station A, giving you enough time (15 mins plus) to buy whatever tickets you need for the entire Journey. This accounts for any queues at the ticket office and any delays on the way to the Station

I don't think people should have to allow 15 minutes, but it may be worth asking the train company how long should be allowed. However they may not want to answer that!

If queues are exceptionally long, passengers should be permitted to buy on board or at destination.

 

[clagmonster]

but i strongly advise the OP to purchase tickets before boarding at station A even if it means arriving a minute or two earlier because it would save future embarrassment

In this position, I would actually be tempted to pay my fare the previous day or when passing the booking office on my way home the previous day I worked in the distant town, thus avoiding any potential for a lengthy queue or similar making me miss the train. Whilst there is some hope of these cases being settled out of court, that would be much less should another incident occur, it is worth going out of your way to ensure you have a valid ticket.

I think I have worked out the journey involved, bar the exact local station A. I won't post it here in case I am wrong but if I am right the interchange station B has no excess fares window but desks where outstanding fares are collected. In all probability the passenger has to pass fairly close to said desk to change platforms. Another question that could be asked is why did the passenger not use that opportunity before boarding the Cross Country train.

 

[island]

Another question that could be asked is why did the passenger not use that opportunity before boarding the Cross Country train.

A common reason for a theoretical passenger in such a situation to not purchase tickets from that sales point is that the passenger is of the mindset that he only intends to purchase a ticket if the nasty man comes around asking for them on the train or he gets stuck behind some horrid ticket gates. Of course I don't know the OP and shouldn't like to second-guess his particular motivations, but...