Crosscountry & Gloucester

[tigerroar]

Being a Gloucester boy I can't help but feel perturbed at CC's lack of love for my fine City just because they have to reverse if they stop here.

Yesterday I went to York, out on the 07:01 (I think from Bristol Temple Meads) to Glasgow Central and back on the 18:44, which may have been the same train on the return trip.

Both were direct to Gloucester and both surprised me that they went via Leeds, which, showing that it's been a while since I last went on a train to the north east also surprised me because I though they went from Sheffield to York via Doncaster.

Now I know their reason for bypassing Gloucester, a City with 132,000 people living here and a lot of potential customers, is that they don't want the time penalties associated with turning around the train but that doesn't wash with me when they do so at places like Reading and go around the houses to visit Leeds as well as taking the least direct route they can to reach Glasgow.

How many crosscountry trains actually stop here? Is it just the odd one or two or just those that originate in Bristol?

Personally I think it's a disgrace that they are allowed to bypass Gloucester and that a ten minute delay (max) would add little to the bigger picture of their mammoth journeys.

And not that it'll ever get built, but it might finally put a stop to the daft notion of building a new Gloucester station on the loop line near to the Triangle.

 

[tbtc]

that doesn't wash with me when they do so at places like Reading and go around the houses to visit Leeds

In fairness to XC (not a phrase you see often on here!) both Reading and Leeds are interchange stations (Thames Valley, Heathrow, Gatwick, Bradford, Huddersfield etc).

Gloucester still has direct hourly services to Birmingham and to Bristol (albeit not Voyager operated)

 

[MidnightFlyer]

To be fair Cheltenham is now the economic and cultural capital of Gloucestershire, not Gloucester itself. It would add about 10 mins or so onto a journey by calling at Gloucester, and there is no real benefit: XC have poor timings as it is along the Birmingham-Bristol stretch, and connections from Gloucester can be obtained elsewhere: the Golden Valley and Swindon from Cheltenham and Newport and South Wales from Bristol Parkway.

 

[Class172]

Just like the XC via Worcester debate - it won't happen unfortunately

 

[Mojo]

Both were direct to Gloucester and both surprised me that they went via Leeds, which, showing that it's been a while since I last went on a train to the north east also surprised me because I though they went from Sheffield to York via Doncaster.

CrossCountry run 2tph from Birmingham to the North East, the one originating in the South West goes via Leeds to Edinburgh and the one originating from Reading goes via Doncaster to Newcastle.

Now I know their reason for bypassing Gloucester, a City with 132,000 people living here and a lot of potential customers, is that they don't want the time penalties associated with turning around the train but that doesn't wash with me when they do so at places like Reading and go around the houses to visit Leeds as well as taking the least direct route they can to reach Glasgow.

Reading and Leeds are both major destinations which people want to go to, and also offer interchange possibilities. Unless customers want to go north of Birmingham or south of Bristol there are already train services. Alternatively customers can change at Cheltenham and remain on the same platform.

Personally I think it's a disgrace that they are allowed to bypass Gloucester and that a ten minute delay (max) would add little to the bigger picture of their mammoth journeys.

Maybe not, but most people aren't doing mammoth journeys. Bristol P/way to Birmingham at 1 Hr 10 Min or Bristol TM to Manchester at 3 Hr are already slow enough.

 

[tbtc]

Just like the XC via Worcester debate - it won't happen unfortunately

Yup.

There are a lot of places an XC service from Edinburgh to Plymouth *could* divert via - Rotherham (117,262), Nottingham (292,400) are just two examples "local" to me.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

If we are going to do it this way, having visited both Ibnwould say Cheltenham is nicer, a well to do area, clean, presentable. Parts of Gloucester are a bit different...

 

[tigerroar]

Yup.

There are a lot of places an XC service from Edinburgh to Plymouth *could* divert via - Rotherham (117,262), Nottingham (292,400) are just two examples "local" to me.

And I'll bet they all stick to the same route rather than varying between one via Derby, one via Nottingham or every other train stopping at Rotherham?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

If we are going to do it this way, having visited both Ibnwould say Cheltenham is nicer, a well to do area, clean, presentable. Parts of Gloucester are a bit different...

You should add "A small part of Cheltenham is nicer, a well to do area, clean, presentable." and that it's a long way from Cheltenham Spa station, whereas Gloucester station is bang in the middle of the City.

And why would people want to visit Reading?!!

 

[tbtc]

And I'll bet they all stick to the same route rather than varying between one via Derby, one via Nottingham or every other train stopping at Rotherham?

Yup, a convenient clockface service, rather than randomly timed services which each run a different route. Thats the way the railways are going. But if XC did want to add fifteen minutes to the Edinburgh - Plymouth journey time (which they don't) then Gloucester is only one of a dozen possibilities for places they could divert via.

And why would people want to visit Reading?!!

232,662 in Reading, compared to 123,205 in Gloucester.

Convenient place to change for a good chunk of the south (whilst avoiding the complication of going into central London to change), links to Heathrow and Gatwick Airports, big growth area, decent sized financial sector bringing jobs to the Thames Valley...

..whereas Gloucester has?

 

[Class172]

I think tigerroar meant what is there in terms of attractions to draw you to Reading, not the financial side - I may be wrong though

 

[WestCoast]

I think tigerroar meant what is there in terms of attractions to draw you to Reading, not the financial side - I may be wrong though

Yes, I think you are right, however it is important to remember that a large proportion of rail travellers aren't making journeys for leisure purposes, are they?

 

[tbtc]

I think tigerroar meant what is there in terms of attractions to draw you to Reading, not the financial side - I may be wrong though

Fair enough. Lots of reasons to visit Reading. A Championship football team (do London Irish still play in Reading?), a University...

 

[Mojo]

Fair enough. Lots of reasons to visit Reading. A Championship football team (do London Irish still play in Reading?), a University...

Plus a brilliant shopping centre.

I went for a weekend break in Gloucester a few years ago, and it was so boring! There's some kind of quays which had a few small shops in it, but that was about it. Ended up spending most of the time in Cheltenham.

 

[Class172]

Yes Cheltenham has loads in terms of shopping. I know people who go from Droitwich Spa to Cheltenham just for shopping.

Gloucester is a nice place but I would quickly get bored there. Not the place I'd choose to go for shopping (if ever that is possible )

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Plus a brilliant shopping centre.

I went for a weekend break in Gloucester a few years ago, and it was so boring! There's some kind of quays which had a few small shops in it, but that was about it. Ended up spending most of the time in Cheltenham.

Ditto, the quays at gloucester are nice but the rest of it is average at best, Cheltenham is quite nice, a good town centre and a nice area. Reading is the largest town in England, is excellent for shopping, there is plenty to do, and there's London Irish RFC and Reading AFC for sports fans, but the Madejski Stadium is miles from the town centre!

 

[tigerroar]

232,662 in Reading, compared to 123,205 in Gloucester.

Convenient place to change for a good chunk of the south (whilst avoiding the complication of going into central London to change), links to Heathrow and Gatwick Airports, big growth area, decent sized financial sector bringing jobs to the Thames Valley...

..whereas Gloucester has?

I did say "visit". Not transfer. Is there a path for their trains to head off the Reading to Oxford line straight down towards Basingstoke? Surely the arrangement there is no different to what they have to do to call at Gloucester?

Plus all of your transfer needs can be catered at via Oxford surely?

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Reading is the busiest station outside of London in Southern England, slightly less busy than Manchester Piccadilly. From Reading you can get to Guildford, Redhill, Gatwick Airport, Swindon, Newbury, Westbury and Heathrow Airport, all of which you cannot get to from Oxford.

 

[tbtc]

I did say "visit". Not transfer

Well, if you are talking about only serving places with tourist potential then you can rule out 95% of stations
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Plus a brilliant shopping centre

The Oracle? I like that place too. It shows what Sheffield should have tried to build (a big shopping centre which is integrated into the town centre, rather than an "out of town" place that you really need a car to visit that has killed off the city centre - or "Meadowhall" as we know it).

Reading is also much more interesting for train spotting, I should add.

 

[Mojo]

I did say "visit". Not transfer. Is there a path for their trains to head off the Reading to Oxford line straight down towards Basingstoke? Surely the arrangement there is no different to what they have to do to call at Gloucester?

It is possible to avoid Reading (not sure why you'd want to). Gloucester is right in the middle of the core XC network which is the box surrounded by Bristol, Reading, Manchester and Newcastle. There are a lot of passengers travelling Bristol to Birmingham and north of.

Plus all of your transfer needs can be catered at via Oxford surely?

Not if you want to go to Guildford, Bristol, Gatwick Airport, South Wales, Bracknell, Ascot, Newbury, and so on.

 

[tigerroar]

They could stop at Reading West

 

[WestCoast]

The Oracle? I like that place too. It shows what Sheffield should have tried to build (a big shopping centre which is integrated into the town centre, rather than an "out of town" place that you really need a car to visit that has killed off the city centre - or "Meadowhall" as we know it).

Sorry for a thread drift...

Meadowhell? At least it has decent public transport though with an interchange, even if it has done nothing for city centre trade. The trams heading out there on a Saturday are busy, with a need for two conductors. The Trafford Centre should have been connected to Metrolink - really annoys me that it isn't.

 

[tigerroar]

Another thing that struck me with the cross country service is that how it's just a convenient pick up / drop off service that connections provincial towns and cities and that there are likely to be very few people (staff or passengers) who will be on the train for the entirety of it's journey.

To that end surely stopping at every major population centre is a surefire winner as for as maximizing revenue goes? After all, I could've chosen from a number of different services between Gloucester and York yesterday, all but one involved changing trains so I chose the direct one even if it left at such an un-Godly hour.

 

[tbtc]

Another thing that struck me with the cross country service is that how it's just a convenient pick up / drop off service that connections provincial towns and cities and that there are likely to be very few people (staff or passengers) who will be on the train for the entirety of it's journey.

To that end surely stopping at every major population centre is a surefire winner as for as maximizing revenue goes?

XC used to run like that. Services from Birmingham/Sheffield to York/Newcastle ran via both Doncaster and Leeds (now they run via either one *or* the other).

So, your Edinburgh - Plymouth service would divert via every major population centre near the route? Sunderland? Bradford? Rotherham? Nottingham? Leicester? Walsall? Coventry?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Sorry for a thread drift...

Meadowhell? At least it has decent public transport though with an interchange, even if it has done nothing for city centre trade. The trams heading out there on a Saturday are busy, with a need for two conductors. The Trafford Centre should have been connected to Metrolink - really annoys me that it isn't.

Yeah, it does have public transport links, better than Cheshire Oaks/ Trafford Centre/ Merry Hill (? The one near Dudley) etc (the Metro Centre has a train station, but not a Metro station, despite the name).

However, I much prefer the idea of building a shopping centre in/near the middle of the town (like Westfield in Derby or Frenchgate in Doncaster or the Oracle at Reading - can't comment on the new Bristol one as I've not been in yet, but that kind of idea).

 

[willas00]

Why should CrossCountry add 10mins onto a journey from Bristol to Birmingham and vice versa when you get of at Cheltenham wait around 5-10mins then get a train which takes around 8-10mins to get to Gloucester? It's easier for them and simple enough for any one.

On the topic of shopping if you live in Cheltenham you would probably be able to agree but many of times when I've been on the Bus/Train to/from Gloucester I often hear bunches of girls talking about how better Cheltenham is for shopping than Gloucester.

There are enough connections to/from Gloucester to Cheltenham for connections to the South West and Birmingham plus direct trains to Bristol, Swindon, London, Wales and Worcester.

 

[tigerroar]

Why should CrossCountry add 10mins onto a journey from Bristol to Birmingham and vice versa

Because Cross Country don't run trains that start in Bristol and end in Birmingham. 10 minutes to a train of that journey would be a no-goer but as their train journeys are probably 8 or 10 times the distance between Bristol and Brum then adding in ten minutes to attract passengers from a City of 132,000 people (plus thousands more from the surrounding areas) would make more commercial sense.

Plus they could claw back some time by bombing through Cheltenham Spa, the station thats nowhere near the posh shops that sell high heels and handbags in that town.

 

[willas00]

Because Cross Country don't run trains that start in Bristol and end in Birmingham. 10 minutes to a train of that journey would be a no-goer but as their train journeys are probably 8 or 10 times the distance between Bristol and Brum then adding in ten minutes to attract passengers from a City of 132,000 people (plus thousands more from the surrounding areas) would make more commercial sense.

Plus they could claw back some time by bombing through Cheltenham Spa, the station thats nowhere near the posh shops that sell high heels and handbags in that town.

Who said about running services that start at Bristol and end in Cheltenham?

I was using this as it's where the trains come from in either direction.

They would make up no time by passing Cheltenham. The speed limit is 40mph through the station and therefore means they might make up 1min?

Also trains from Cheltenham to Bristol and Birmingham get very fully during peak times therefore it would be stupid from a commercial sense to not call at Cheltenham?

It makes no sense to call at Gloucester and increase journey time by 10mins when they can just bypass and not add journey time for passengers.

You might also like to know that on Sundays for a while you can get a CrossCountry trains from Gloucester to Bristol and Birmingham.

 

[MCR247]

While were on this thread I thought it might be worth asking this:

Why don't we divert all CrossCountry services to serve Nottingham. Not just RDG-NCL and PLY-EDB but run BMH-MAN & BRI - MAN like this BHM - NOT - SHF - MAN? It makes sense, Nottingham is a big place, and if the time penalty is a lot, we could just cut all other stops so all XC trains run like this:

Origin - Nottingham - Destination, that is if Nottingham isn't the origin/destination.

Good idea don't you think?

While we were at it we could do the same with East Coast services...


:roll:

I'm not being serious, I'm trying to show quite frankly how ridiculous all of these Nottingham - Cardiff via Worcester, Droitwitch - London, Gloucester & XC threads are.

 

[Wyvern]

Well I have to say Gloucester is only a deviation from the line while Nottingham is way up a branch.

I can remember when Gloucester was on the main NE/SW main line - I used to change there from the Pines to the Devonian.

It was the Gloucester townspeople who closed the line because the level crossings held them up in their cars.

 

[tbtc]

While were on this thread I thought it might be worth asking this:

Why don't we divert all CrossCountry services to serve Nottingham. Not just RDG-NCL and PLY-EDB but run BMH-MAN & BRI - MAN like this BHM - NOT - SHF - MAN? It makes sense, Nottingham is a big place, and if the time penalty is a lot, we could just cut all other stops so all XC trains run like this:

Origin - Nottingham - Destination, that is if Nottingham isn't the origin/destination.

Good idea don't you think?

While we were at it we could do the same with East Coast services...


:roll:

I'm not being serious, I'm trying to show quite frankly how ridiculous all of these Nottingham - Cardiff via Worcester, Droitwitch - London, Gloucester & XC threads are.

I think, given how important I've realised Reading is, that every Bristol - Birmingham service should be diverted via Reading.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

I think, given how important I've realised Reading is, that every Bristol - Birmingham service should be diverted via Reading.

Quite frankly I think any train involving the Great Western region should be extended to Reading and run through all of its timetabled stops just to make up time. I would also create a new Droitwich-London service, with HSTs, stopping nowhere six times a day. Then I would set up special trains just so people in Gloucester could get the satisfaction of going throught Cheltenham Spa non-stop. This will get deleted but who cares?