Cross-London tickets

[Bob M]

If I have a ticket via London, what transport am I entitled to use in London? Just tube, or bus as well? Just one journey between stations, or any trip in zone 1? Or multiple trips?

And do the tube barriers understand the restrictions?!

 

[jopsuk]

Just tube, a single journey, though I think any zone-1 trip would work (in theory)?

 

[dan_atki]

A route of '+Any Permitted', '+London' '+[other stations]' (and a few other anomolies but let's not confuse matters!) indicate that a journey across London is included in the price of the ticket.

This should be taken on the Tube, DLR (where applicable), or by First Capital Connect cross-London services.

The journey included is one appropriate to the route of your ticket - e.g. Stevenage to Twickenham would be fine for Finsbury Park/King's Cross/Highbury & Islington/Old Street/Moorgate to Victoria/Waterloo/Richmond and probably Wimbledon and London Bridge too.

However, Stevenage to Twickenham would not be valid at Marylebone, for instance, as you have no need to be there en route.

If you wish to break your journey (where you hold a ticket that allows this) at an LU/DLR station on part of your cross-London journey - e.g. at Oxford Circus on a Stevenage to Twickenham, then this is allowed provided, on re-entry, you pay the appropriate Tube fare to continue your journey later - in this case you'd need a single to get to Victoria/Waterloo/Richmond/Wimbledon/London Bridge, from where you can use your original ticket again.

 

[mathmo]

The Tube barriers certainly do understand the restrictions: I once got off at King's Cross to go back to Cambridge, only to find the wires were down and all trains were cancelled, so I tried to go back on the Tube to get to Liverpool Street but the barriers didn't let me in. A member of staff let me through though and there were no problems getting out at the end - but I realised afterwards that my position wasn't quite as clear-cut as I thought at the time!

 

[Bob M]

I tried to use a cross-London ticket yesterday from Waterloo to Pimlico tube. The ticket let me through the barrier at Waterloo of course, but didn't let me out at Pimlico. The man on the barrier took pity on me and let me out, but said that the ticket only works in main-line stations.

 

[Wyvern]

I bought a ticket from Woking to St.Pancras (which worked on the tube from Waterloo) and it had a destination "U1"

What routes and stations would that cover?

 

[dan_atki]

I tried to use a cross-London ticket yesterday from Waterloo to Pimlico tube. The ticket let me through the barrier at Waterloo of course, but didn't let me out at Pimlico. The man on the barrier took pity on me and let me out, but said that the ticket only works in main-line stations.

Depends what ticket you have really - i.e. the origin and destination.

The point of Cross-London is not to allow journeys to random zone 1 stations (if you want that then you should get a ticket to 'Zone U1 London' which gives a single trip to any zone 1 station), but to provide travel across London between National Rail stations with no National Rail services between them.

I bought a ticket from Woking to St.Pancras (which worked on the tube from Waterloo) and it had a destination "U1"

What routes and stations would that cover?

A destination of any station in zone 1, with an interchange to Tube at Vauxhall or Waterloo.

 

[yorkie]

I tried to use a cross-London ticket yesterday from Waterloo to Pimlico tube. The ticket let me through the barrier at Waterloo of course, but didn't let me out at Pimlico. The man on the barrier took pity on me and let me out, but said that the ticket only works in main-line stations.

Not valid, you need a ticket to U1 or a Travelcard to do that.

Apparently you are allowed out if you try to exit at a station such as Pimlico, I think this is done on the basis that you could be feeling unwell or some other reason, however you will not be allowed back in, and you would have to make your way to Vauxhall by alternative means (or buying a new ticket / use Oyster).

 

[dan_atki]

Not valid, you need a ticket to U1 or a Travelcard to do that.

Apparently you are allowed out if you try to exit at a station such as Pimlico, I think this is done on the basis that you could be feeling unwell or some other reason, however you will not be allowed back in, and you would have to make your way to Vauxhall by alternative means (or buying a new ticket / use Oyster).

You are allowed out for any reason, provided you pay on return to the system (if you do return).

You made the same mistake I did - we both know that the SB Victoria Line was used but how would the barrier assistant know? In this case the transfer could have been made at Vauxhall and travelling northbound to another terminal (depending on the destination on the ticket).

Say Earlsfield to Stevenage - interchange at Vauxhall, break at Pimlico, pay Pimlico to King's Cross, and then continue to Stevenage. Changing at Waterloo and going by Tube to Pimlico (whilst stupid there is nothing to stop you unless it is seen by CCTV that you are lying) and saying you changed at Vauxhall and travelled northbound should be enough.

I'm actually finding it rather difficult to find something that wouldn't be valid at Pimlico on the NB Victoria (obviously with a '+'). The most intuitive to me would be say Earlsfield to somewhere like St Johns where it is obvious you should go via London Bridge - obvious to the extent the fare is 'London Not Und' so the use of the Tube between Waterloo and London Bridge is forbidden. However, if this was changed to say, '+Any Permitted' then this is the kind of ticket which has no use at all at Pimlico.

After realising the NB Victoria could be used as a get-out I cut down a lot of my reply, if it could be proved that the ticket was being used southbound then it would not be valid at all at Pimlico.
The only two places you could be theoretically going would be Vauxhall or Brixton. On this ticket, both are invalid.

If you did indeed enter the system at Waterloo (presumably from a SWT station rather than Waterloo East), then you really have no need to be going to Vauxhall by Tube on a cross-London ticket* - a change could have been made at Clapham Junction, or in the worst case, a train straight back out of Waterloo.

The other alternative is Brixton, which actually is not a recognised change for cross-London transfer, although I suspect many LU staff are not aware of this, except probably those at Brixton...

*Indeed, I doubt there's any flow between two SWT stations that has anything (i.e. a '+Any Permitted') other than a Not London and a London Not Und fare. Things like a Clapham Junction to Reading '+Any Permitted' are a somewhat grey area - it seems silly to do Clapham > Waterloo > Vauxhall (by Tube) > Clapham > Reading, after all does the '+Any Permitted' imply that doubling back has been paid for if you wish to use that route?.
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Incidentally, where is it that I've seen it written that you can break a journey on LU provided you pay upon re-entry? I thought it was the NCoC but it says there (along with the old NFM98 section A) that BoJ is forbidden :?.

The only reference I can now find in the public domain is on: http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_fares/london/ where it says:

You can 'break your journey' and leave the Underground service en route. However, you'll need to buy another ticket in order to continue your journey.

 

[mallard]

One question I have about London interchange: If I have a ticket from somewhere on the MML to somewhere on the Victoria-Chatham line, is it valid to use FCC from STP to Bromley South?

 

[Mike395]

One question I have about London interchange: If I have a ticket from somewhere on the MML to somewhere on the Victoria-Chatham line, is it valid to use FCC from STP to Bromley South?

Yes it would be - however from personal experience it is quicker to use the Underground to Victoria then catch the train from there, as the FCC Kent service really does go 'round the houses'

 

[hairyhandedfool]

Journeys on FCC through, terminating or starting at Farringdon count as London Underground journeys across the capital except where routed FCC only or Not Underground.

National Rail tickets are valid for a single use on the London Underground between NR Mainline stations (each way in the case of a return or season ticket) or on interavailable routes (not season tickets) if the ticket route has a maltese cross (+) or where the routeing guide permits journeys via London. They are not valid for break of journey on the cross London section of the journey, regardless of the ticket's restrictions. thus if you leave the underground system before reaching the NR Mainline station you will have to pay to get back on the underground.