Cross Country unreserved carriage

[mangyiscute]

So I was under the impression that on cross country trains, carriage F is always unreserved whether a 4 or 5 coach voyager turns up, and if its a 5 coach B is also unreserved.
My sister got on the 11:15 Reading to Manchester train just now, and I had advised her to go to carriage F since its unreserved and take any seat there. However, it is apparently part reserved, and she got kicked out.
When did Cross Country stop leaving carriage F totally unreserved?

 

[ValentaFan1974]

Since the timetable change on Sunday, Coach B on 5 car voyagers, plus part of Coach D on all Voyagers is unreserved. Coach F is now a reservable coach.

This is to make sure reservations are standardised between the regular XC fleet and the ex-Avanti fleet that are now entering service.

 

[mangyiscute]

How frustrating, and it was so much nicer having the unreserved coach right at one end of the train so its easy to know where it will be.
Hopefully the new units mean 4 coach services are much less common over the summer.

 

[QueensCurve]

All of which is small beer compared to the musical chairs at each station stop as the seats people are sitting in suddenly become researved by someone else.

 

[irish_rail]

Retrograde step in my opinion. XC is such a lottery at present and having one coach that you know if boarding at Plymouth you are actually likely to get a seat is a big loss.

 

[zwk500]

Retrograde step in my opinion. XC is such a lottery at present and having one coach that you know if boarding at Plymouth you are actually likely to get a seat is a big loss.

The unreserved coach still exists, it's just a different coach.

All of which is small beer compared to the musical chairs at each station stop as the seats people are sitting in suddenly become researved by someone else.

This is not an issue with which coach is unreserved though, but with the reservation displays not giving advance information (e.g. 'Reserved from Bristol Parkway to Birmingham New Street' displayed at Plymouth, which I'm fairly sure used to be done).

 

[louis97]

The unreserved coach still exists, it's just a different coach.

Except it isn't a different coach on a 4-car Voyager, it is now a handful of seats in Coach D (and I think 2 seats in Coach C)

 

[zwk500]

Except it isn't a different coach on a 4-car Voyager, it is now a handful of seats in Coach D (and I think 2 seats in Coach C)

Ah, apologies I misread post #2. That is a big blow.

 

[YorksLad12]

Since the timetable change on Sunday, Coach B on 5 car voyagers, plus part of Coach D on all Voyagers is unreserved. Coach F is now a reservable coach.

This is to make sure reservations are standardised between the regular XC fleet and the ex-Avanti fleet that are now entering service.

That's... annoying. And probably not well known. Fortunately, we've had double sets on my usual (1V48) but I would still have aimed for B or F if it was only 5 cars (if 4 cars I have the luxury of missing it and getting to work later on a Northern semi-fast).

Less unreserved seating also deters short-distance travellers, of course, including the Wakefield College students. Unless they board before the rest if us, of course...

Edited to ask: which end of coach D is unreserved?

 

[Kite159]

So back to how it was before Covid when the only unreserved seats on a 4 coach unit were a handful in coach D near the luggage rack?

 

[StarCrossing]

This is really disappointing. Travelling on CrossCountry has been so much better since coach F became unreserved. Why is only part of D unreserved rather than the full coach?

 

[ValentaFan1974]

Prior to Covid, coach F was a reservable coach so it’s gone back to the way it was.

 

[ValentaFan1974]

That's... annoying. And probably not well known. Fortunately, we've had double sets on my usual (1V48) but I would still have aimed for B or F if it was only 5 cars (if 4 cars I have the luxury of missing it and getting to work later on a Northern semi-fast).

Less unreserved seating also deters short-distance travellers, of course, including the Wakefield College students. Unless they board before the rest if us, of course...

Edited to ask: which end of coach D is unreserved?

1V48 is reverting to a single set in September. Just a heads up.

 

[tomoufc]

Is this to maximise advance sales, since advances aren't available without a reservation?

 

[Segedunum]

So the answer appears to be D57 onwards, which would mean that a whole 14 seats are left unreserved. Extremely poor.

That's what I've found on the 1236 Newcastle-Reading...

Edit - all of F indeed reserved except 43/44 which are the wheelchair companion seats so they're blocked out of the usual reservation system...

 

[YorksLad12]

I did the decent thing this morning, and went to the horse's mouth Twitter...

Morning @CrossCountryUK - which are the unreserved coaches now on the 8/9/10-car sets (via Leeds)?

Hi Gary. If you head to Coach B, you'll find a non-reservable carriage. We also have non-reservable seating in Coach H/L, where available. You can also check the formation of your train each morning before service via http://realtimetrains.co.uk. ^EB

(Love the hat-tip to RTT )

Thanks. I remember it was always Coach F - so in a four-car set there would now be no unreserved seating?

There wouldn't be a specific Coach for unreserved, just seats throughout the train. ^EB

To me, that reads as no unreserved seats on a four-car set, just the one in a five car set and still coach L when doubled up (plus coach H, if there is one). Fourteen unreserved seats is no unreserved seats, pretty much.

1V48 is reverting to a single set in September. Just a heads up.

I look forward to the bun fight at Leeds (not); I already avoid the 4-car trains Hopefully, there are enough 5-car sets once the ex-Avanti units are deployed to make it a 5-car minimum on the NE-SW route.

 

[mangyiscute]

Hopefully, there are enough 5-car sets once the ex-Avanti units are deployed to make it a 5-car minimum on the NE-SW route.

I saw one of them at Coventry heading up towards Manchester yesterday, so they're already out - doesn't seem to stop there being lots of 4 coaches on the Bournemouth to Manchester route still.
edit: here's one allocated today: https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:C79553/2024-06-06/detailed#allox_id=0

 

[Class172]

Oh wonderful, absolutely thrilling news that the 4-car sets will have negligible unreserved seating, there might as well not be any. I’m sure I won’t have to deal with this inadequate situation much, it’s not like those sets ever make it down to Devon…

 

[sprinterguy]

I saw one of them at Coventry heading up towards Manchester yesterday, so they're already out - doesn't seem to stop there being lots of 4 coaches on the Bournemouth to Manchester route still.
edit: here's one allocated today: https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:C79553/2024-06-06/detailed#allox_id=0

There are only a couple of ex-Avanti sets in service so far - it'll be some time yet before all the additional sets earmarked for XC will be available from Avanti.

Hopefully, there are enough 5-car sets once the ex-Avanti units are deployed to make it a 5-car minimum on the NE-SW route.

Some back of an envelope calculations suggest that might be possible, once the fleet refurbishment concludes.

 

[Spaceship323]

Oh wonderful, absolutely thrilling news that the 4-car sets will have negligible unreserved seating, there might as well not be any. I’m sure I won’t have to deal with this inadequate situation much, it’s not like those sets ever make it down to Devon…

There's a 4-car going to Paignton at the moment.. https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:C48555/2024-06-06/detailed#allox_id=0

 

[Class172]

There's a 4-car going to Paignton at the moment.. https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:C48555/2024-06-06/detailed#allox_id=0

My comment was tounge-in-cheek, as I regularly experience 4-car XC services down in the SW.

 

[rhysperry111]

Glad I'm not the only one annoyed at this. It's made finding a table seat with colleagues (we book seperately) effectively impossible on our morning 0800 BRI->CNM train.

 

[voyagerdude220]

I think it's ridiculous that such a large proportion of Cross Country Voyagers are reservable. I think it was much better when they made coach F fully unreserved, because it meant you always had at least one unreserved carriage, regardless of whether a 4 or 5 car 220/221 turned up.

 

[YorksLad12]

Gayle on 1V48 this morning announced that there was no unreserved seating in the front portion, coaches H and L in the rear (4+5 consist). Sadly, 1S51 was "only" 4+4 on the way back, and quite full.

 

[DanielDeronda]

I'm going from Reading to Birmingham on the 0915 today.

realtimetrains is saying it's a 9 coach train, diagram shows no coach B, so will H&L be the only unreserved coaches?

Luckily it starts at Reading not from Bournemouth but don't want hassle of standing for long periods.

 

[Segedunum]

I'm going from Reading to Birmingham on the 0915 today.

realtimetrains is saying it's a 9 coach train, diagram shows no coach B, so will H&L be the only unreserved coaches?

Luckily it starts at Reading not from Bournemouth but don't want hassle of standing for long periods.

It will indeed be H and L.

 

[DanielDeronda]

It will indeed be H and L.

Yep coach H was virtually empty when I got on at Reading yesterday.

But was a 4 coach train back today, with massive overcrowding as expected at BHM, Luckily I had a reservation (or 2 with split ticketing). But hate it when the train manager stated the bleeding obvious that the train was busy!!

What other alternatives might I have to get from Reading to BHM & MAN?

 

[Spaceship323]

Yep coach H was virtually empty when I got on at Reading yesterday.

But was a 4 coach train back today, with massive overcrowding as expected at BHM, Luckily I had a reservation (or 2 with split ticketing). But hate it when the train manager stated the bleeding obvious that the train was busy!!

What other alternatives might I have to get from Reading to BHM & MAN?

Reading to Didcot on GWR, Didcot to Banbury, also GWR, Banbury to Birmingham Moor street on Chiltern. BHM ~ MAN on Avanti

 

[sprinterguy]

Reading to Didcot on GWR, Didcot to Banbury, also GWR, Banbury to Birmingham Moor street on Chiltern. BHM ~ MAN on Avanti

Noting that, for the Avanti segment, a change is also required at either Stafford or Crewe, where it's a tight connection or, if that fails, an hour's wait: Though changing at Crewe would at least give the option of more alternative options forward to Manchester.

Another alternative, for either Birmingham or Manchester, would be GWR to London Paddington then Avanti forward from London Euston (or potentially London Northwestern for Birmingham in particular). That or Megabus - slower, but at least there's no risk of standing.

 

[YorkC]

I'm hoping to get this train later - https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:C80052/2024-10-19#allox_id=0. This time there's no B or H, so will L be unreserved (and/or a few seats in D)?