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Cross-country overcrowding: what could be done?

Jimini

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Interesting one today. Currently travelling from Coventry to Reading. 1626 was cancelled south of Birmingham, so the 1726 was suitably rammed. Declassified first, people wedged up against doors etc. Managed to squeeze into carriage A.

Then lo’! The train manager piped up after leaving Coventry to let everyone know that because it was so crowded, we’d be running non-stop from Leamington to Reading, and passengers for Banbury and Oxford would need to get off at Leamington and catch the ex. Leeds service that was ten mins behind our train.

I now have a (free / declassified) first class seat, and an express journey to Reading! :lol: :lol:
 
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class 9

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Internal email from the MD confirms that XC will get 8 221 units from early next year in a rolling introduction over the year.
 

Tetragon213

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If the staffing remains an issue, is there any scope for cutting out the middle 3 coaches from each, and popping them into an existing 4-coach set to create some horrifying franken-train of 7 coaches that will only need one guard still? At least that will act as a temporary plaster over the worst of the problem until the staffing issues are more firmly resolved?
 

GRALISTAIR

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If the staffing remains an issue, is there any scope for cutting out the middle 3 coaches from each, and popping them into an existing 4-coach set to create some horrifying franken-train of 7 coaches that will only need one guard still? At least that will act as a temporary plaster over the worst of the problem until the staffing issues are more firmly resolved?
Well I like what LUMO have done and made 6 cars by rejiggering. I don’t mind a 7 coach Frankenstein train. Clearly something has to be done.
 

HSTEd

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The three centre vehicles of a five car XC Class 221 have 188 of the 256 seats aboard, according to the XC seating plan on the internet.

Including the six stored sets, there are 38 5-car and 4 4-car sets available to XC. That's 84 end vehicles and 122 middle vehicles available. Unfortunately the only factors of 122 are 61 and 2, so you cannot make a uniform fleet by this method. However if you stack them into 30 sets of 4 and 1 of 2, you could make a nearly uniform fleet of 30 6-car and 1 4-car train for 31 units.

Given that the XC timetable currently only has 36 units available to run it, it could probably cover the diagrams.... or at least nearly.

The fleet of 62 end vehicles and 122 middle vehicles would represent a seat loss of 748 total seats, or around 7% of the 10,736 total available. This makes the assumption that all sets reformed would have one of each of the two kinds of end vehicle in use.

31 sets might not be ideal, because with the exception of coupling the 4-car to a 6-car, you would probably lose the ability to double them. I'd have to know how many diagrams (not including reinforcing units) there were to come up with a better solution. But losing ~7% of the seats for removing just over 10% of the vehicles ain't bad considering it would eliminate the need to couple them regularly and the associated staffing issues of having units in multiple. It would still result in significantly more seats than without the 6 additional trainsets.
 
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The Ham

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The three centre vehicles of a five car XC Class 221 have 188 of the 256 seats aboard, according to the XC seating plan on the internet.

Including the six stored sets, there are 38 5-car and 4 4-car sets available to XC. That's 84 end vehicles and 122 middle vehicles available. Unfortunately the only factors of 122 are 61 and 2, so you cannot make a uniform fleet by this method. However if you stack them into 30 sets of 4 and 1 of 2, you could make a nearly uniform fleet of 30 6-car and 1 4-car train for 31 units.

Given that the XC timetable currently only has 36 units available to run it, it could probably cover the diagrams.... or at least nearly.

The fleet of 62 end vehicles and 122 middle vehicles would represent a seat loss of 748 total seats, or around 7% of the 10,736 total available. This makes the assumption that all sets reformed would have one of each of the two kinds of end vehicle in use.

31 sets might not be ideal, because with the exception of coupling the 4-car to a 6-car, you would probably lose the ability to double them. I'd have to know how many diagrams (not including reinforcing units) there were to come up with a better solution. But losing ~7% of the seats for removing just over 10% of the vehicles ain't bad considering it would eliminate the need to couple them regularly and the associated staffing issues of having units in multiple. It would still result in significantly more seats than without the 6 additional trainsets.

I believe that (including the 220's) there's 44 diagrams which need to be run.

I believe that you need to have a minimum of 3 coaches in a set, so it "could" be possible to split that 4 coach unit to retain a couple of end units to create 2 sets with 3 coaches so XC could strengthen a few extra diagrams as 9 coach sets.

Although, arguably having the 221's as a near universal 6 coach fleet and all 220's (plus 1 set of a 221) as 4 coaches isn't a bad option.

30 sets with 6 coaches would likely be 25 (maybe 26) units in traffic (assuming 85% fleet utilisation).

That leaves 19 diagrams to be run by the 30 sets of 220's in traffic at any time, which would be enough to run 50% of the time as 8 coach sets, that's potentially just enough to cover much of the core.

The one thing which is worth bearing in mind is just how few seats the end coaches carry, yet have full lease costs, as such a small reduction in capacity might actually make XC more financial viable and so mean a replacement fleet is more likely.

Especially, if XC can show that, yes there's scope for a tiny uplift in capacity but at a significant cost vs a significant uplift in capacity for a slightly smaller cost uplift by getting a new fleet.
 

brad465

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Could XC pursue a follow-up order of the TPE BEMUs to replace their 170s? An order of 16x would be enough to replace the 80 carriages like-for-like, with maybe an increase to 20 units to allow for passenger growth, and would guarantee 5-car length on all services instead of 2-4 car. They would probably need to come with electrification at least partially between Birmingham and Derby, but otherwise there are plenty of OHLE stretches across the Cardiff-Nottingham and Birmingham-Stansted* corridors to keep batteries topped up.

*Will probably need bay platform lengthening, but should be done with growth provision anyway.
 

WestCountry

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The one thing which is worth bearing in mind is just how few seats the end coaches carry, yet have full lease costs, as such a small reduction in capacity might actually make XC more financial viable and so mean a replacement fleet is more likely.
My pet idea is to ditch half the end cars from the entire fleet, giving 17x 6-car sets and 22x 8-car sets that would be much more economical to run without low-capacity vehicles and duplicate crewing. An single 8-car set without end cars would have more capacity than the 9-car doubles. Then order a relatively small number of 80x or similar to make up the remaining diagrams.
 

DarloRich

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We all know the answer. It is easy: Order a standard fleet of 9 car class 800 type trains with bi mode facilities!

( I am available to offer consultancy services with very reasonable rates!)
 

Tetragon213

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We all know the answer. It is easy: Order a standard fleet of 9 car class 800 type trains with bi mode facilities!

( I am available to offer consultancy services with very reasonable rates!)
I would continue advocating for a fleet of 5 & 7 coach units.

Lower shock horror cost to the DafT/Treasury, still massively increases the number of seats, provides flexibility for running smaller units/splits along certain branches etc, and can be run in formations of 12 for particularly busy services.
 

35B

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I would continue advocating for a fleet of 5 & 7 coach units.

Lower shock horror cost to the DafT/Treasury, still massively increases the number of seats, provides flexibility for running smaller units/splits along certain branches etc, and can be run in formations of 12 for particularly busy services.
At the cost of reduced service reliability (where will the joins/splits take place? - New St?), significant platform lengthenings where capacity is constrained to shorter trains, and a higher cost per seat because of all the duplicated equipment.

However, I would not suggest purchasing cl. 80x - the issues with the 810s confirm if any doubt was required that Hitachi are not a good industry partner.
 

mmh

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Splitting and joining trains on a network which is likely to always struggle with punctuality just from its distances and interactions with other more self contained networks seems like something to be avoided.
 

DarloRich

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I would continue advocating for a fleet of 5 & 7 coach units.
I wouldn't - one standard length train is needed and it needs to be as long as possible. I would go for 11 cars if possible as this is a one of purchase for the next generation or 2!
However, I would not suggest purchasing cl. 80x - the issues with the 810s confirm if any doubt was required that Hitachi are not a good industry partner.
The 800 family is the standard IC train now. Why create extra requirements for maintenance locations, equipment and competence and new spares and consumables flows?
 

Bletchleyite

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The 800 family is the standard IC train now. Why create extra requirements for maintenance locations, equipment and competence and new spares and consumables flows?

The big reason not to buy any more AT300 units as they are is that they aren't level boarding. However if we want to stick with that family I'm sure Hitachi could manage to do a version with a drop between the bogies of the vehicles without engines (the two end vehicles on the regular 80x which have a lower floor already and contain the wheelchair accommodation and accessible toilets in both classes) to provide that. It would require some measure of redesign to move the transformer, though that could possibly be achieved by replacing the engine and associated gubbins on one vehicle (the middle maybe?) with the transformer and some batteries, meaning you could get the same acceleration with two engines as three but taking up less space.
 

DarloRich

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The big reason not to buy any more AT300 units as they are is that they aren't level boarding. However if we want to stick with that family I'm sure Hitachi could manage to do a version with a drop between the bogies of the vehicles without engines (the two end vehicles on the regular 80x which have a lower floor already and contain the wheelchair accommodation and accessible toilets in both classes) to provide that.
I thought they were level boarding in those 2 vehicles? that comes as a surprise!
 

Bletchleyite

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I thought they were level boarding in those 2 vehicles? that comes as a surprise!

No, just a lower floor. Those vehicles are level from the doorstep to inside, but the doorstep is a step up from the platform, whereas the other vehicles have both a step up to the doorstep and again into the vehicle as e.g. Voyagers do.
 

DarloRich

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No, just a lower floor. Those vehicles are level from the doorstep to inside, but the doorstep is a step up from the platform, whereas the other vehicles have both a step up to the doorstep and again into the vehicle as e.g. Voyagers do.
thanks! that will be designed out in my hypothetical XC order ;)
 

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