Cross Country New Franchise

[KashmireHawker]

The DfT expect bidder shortlist to be confirmed on either September 13th, or on 11th October if further scrutiny of bidders is requested. Those dates are on Page 13 of the Pre-Qualification Document as attached. EoI submissions closed on Thursday just past.

https://assets.publishing.service.g...tition-pre-qualification-process-document.pdf

 

[DenmarkRail]

The DfT expect bidder shortlist to be confirmed on either September 13th, or on 11th October if further scrutiny of bidders is requested. Those dates are on Page 13 of the Pre-Qualification Document as attached. EoI submissions closed on Thursday just past.

https://assets.publishing.service.g...tition-pre-qualification-process-document.pdf

Do we have any idea on who is bidding?

 

[HH]

Do we have any idea on who is bidding?

At this stage it's an Expression of Interest and wouldn't be a definite commitment to bid in any case, but I haven't seen anyone admit to it and I cannot find any recently registered companies with cross country in the name. Apart from the incumbent, I wouldn't say that anyone else is a nailed on certainty to bid. Abellio & Govia probably won't, because they don't bid for this type of franchise, although Keolis might join with someone else. I think First have too much already on their plate in their current state. I could see a joint venture or two bidding, as it helps spread the cost and the risk.

 

[KashmireHawker]

As HH has said, with it just being the EoI stage of the process, there are no clues via Company House as to who will chuck there hat into the ring.

I think however and thanks to the struggles the DfT have had in general - just to get companies to bid, they'll be max of 3/4 bidders being:

1: Arriva, who as the incumbent will probably know it's vital for there strategy to hold on to the Franchise;

2: Go-Ahead, (including Keolis) who may feel that there time on SouthEastern to current and on West Midlands until last year, gives them a reasonable shout at winning;

3: the Abellio/Japanese consortium who have 2 franchises atm (as well in the mix for SouthEastern) and there is no doubt feel that the experience of Asian companies would help;

and 4: MTR/Guangshen who have extremely deep pockets are probs looking at XC, as a way of maybe linking it into West Coast Partnership in the way Virgin did; providing the Chinese firms win WCP, of which at the moment is widely expected.

First are nowhere in a position to bid, if the Telegraph story of Trenitalia taking over there Rail Divisions from yesterday turns out to be accurate and seeing that Virgin's company that ran XC between 1997-2007 dissolved in 2014, along with Stagecoach's problems I again would be surprised if they got involved. Surely Sir Richard would wise not to, considering the huge mess there partners left ICEC in financially!

 

[DenmarkRail]

As HH has said, with it just being the EoI stage of the process, there are no clues via Company House as to who will chuck there hat into the ring.

I think however and thanks to the struggles the DfT have had in general - just to get companies to bid, they'll be max of 3/4 bidders being:

1: Arriva, who as the incumbent will probably know it's vital for there strategy to hold on to the Franchise;

2: Go-Ahead, (including Keolis) who may feel that there time on SouthEastern to current and on West Midlands until last year, gives them a reasonable shout at winning;

3: the Abellio/Japanese consortium who have 2 franchises atm (as well in the mix for SouthEastern) and there is no doubt feel that the experience of Asian companies would help;

and 4: MTR/Guangshen who have extremely deep pockets are probs looking at XC, as a way of maybe linking it into West Coast Partnership in the way Virgin did; providing the Chinese firms win WCP, of which at the moment is widely expected.

First are nowhere in a position to bid, if the Telegraph story of Trenitalia taking over there Rail Divisions from yesterday turns out to be accurate and seeing that Virgin's company that ran XC between 1997-2007 dissolved in 2014, along with Stagecoach's problems I again would be surprised if they got involved. Surely Sir Richard would wise not to, considering the huge mess there partners left ICEC in financially!

I know your completely right about Virgin and Stagecoach... But who said Virgin had to get with Stagecoach? A virgin + MTR + JR EAST would be cool

 

[KashmireHawker]

I know your completely right about Virgin and Stagecoach... But who said Virgin had to get with Stagecoach? A virgin + MTR + JR EAST would be cool

That'd be a tasty combo - maybe a way of giving SC the middle finger from Virgin after the events of this year.

 

[DenmarkRail]

Possibly completely wrong but:

-https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/04162993

 

[The Ham]

Possibly completely wrong but:

-https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/04162993

You can read what you like into a company with the word Virgin in the title which has been operating since 2001 and is currently inactive.

 

[syorksdeano]

This seems an interesting one that changed in March this year https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/03266762

 

[DenmarkRail]

This seems an interesting one that changed in March this year https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/03266762

Looks as if it’s a DfT holding company - Previous reports and files suggest it used to form part of Directly operated railways before it was closed up

 

[KashmireHawker]

Public Consultation ended last night; just a case of the waiting game for the Bidders list, either on the 13th September or 11th October

 

[route101]

Seen a tweet yesterday promoting that in the new franchise a Cardiff to Edinburgh service connecting celtic capitals . Id say this would be unlikely

 

[adrock1976]

Seen a tweet yesterday promoting that in the new franchise a Cardiff to Edinburgh service connecting celtic capitals . Id say this would be unlikely

It would really be a miracle if Dublin (Ireland), Douglas (Isle of Man), Vannes (Brittany), Truro (Cornwall), Cardiff (Wales), and Edinburgh (Scotland) could all be connected to each other.

If somebody comes up with a feasible plan, all of the six Celtic capitals would eventually become connected to each other. There again, there is a greater chance of Aston Villa winning the European Cup again during my lifetime and Elvis Presley being found alive and well.

PS: Perhaps a high speed line from Edinburgh to Vannes via and calling at Douglas, Dublin, Cardiff, and Truro?

 

[The Ham]

It would really be a miracle if Dublin (Ireland), Douglas (Isle of Man), Vannes (Brittany), Truro (Cornwall), Cardiff (Wales), and Edinburgh (Scotland) could all be connected to each other.

If somebody comes up with a feasible plan, all of the six Celtic capitals would eventually become connected to each other. There again, there is a greater chance of Aston Villa winning the European Cup again during my lifetime and Elvis Presley being found alive and well.

PS: Perhaps a high speed line from Edinburgh to Vannes via and calling at Douglas, Dublin, Cardiff, and Truro?

Depending on the exact wording I would argue that by saying "connecting Celtic capitals" would be valid when connecting at least two of the Celtic capitals. If it had said "connecting the Celtic capitals" then it would have needed to connect them all.

It's the same when someone like BT days that they are connecting rural communities to fast broadband, they don't need to connect everyone for that statement to be true. They could just be connecting two.

Likewise when Councils say they are providing safe routes to school, not all the routes will be made safe just some of them.

 

[whhistle]

no clues as to who will chuck there hat[sic] into the ring
it's vital for there strategy
Go-Ahead, who may feel that there time
Trenitalia taking over there Rail Divisions
considering the huge mess there partners

Seriously... it's their for nearly every time you've written that sounding word.
I can accept it a little, but not continiously. Print off the three examples of the words, stick them on your bedroom wall and learn them, please.

1: Arriva, who as the incumbent will probably know it's vital for there strategy to hold on to the Franchise;

What (publically accessible) vital strategy is this?

and 4: MTR/Guangshen who are widely expected to win the WCP

What have you seen to make you think MTR are the preferred bidders?

 

[HowardGWR]

Seriously... it's their for nearly every time you've written that sounding word.
I can accept it a little, but not continiously. Print off the three examples of the words, stick them on your bedroom wall and learn them, please.
What (publically accessible) vital strategy is this?

What have you seen to make you think MTR are the preferred bidders?

See the second emboldened word. If you are going to correct another poster's English, then you need to spell your own reply correctly.

(You also spelt continuously incorrectly but I imagine that was a typo).

 

[Jorge Da Silva]

Seriously... it's their for nearly every time you've written that sounding word.
I can accept it a little, but not continiously. Print off the three examples of the words, stick them on your bedroom wall and learn them, please.



What (publically accessible) vital strategy is this?


What have you seen to make you think MTR are the preferred bidders?

Possibly because First are struggling financially, Virgin and Stagecoach failed with the East Coast which May mean that only one Of the bidders has not ran into problems, yet.

 

[route101]

It would really be a miracle if Dublin (Ireland), Douglas (Isle of Man), Vannes (Brittany), Truro (Cornwall), Cardiff (Wales), and Edinburgh (Scotland) could all be connected to each other.

If somebody comes up with a feasible plan, all of the six Celtic capitals would eventually become connected to each other. There again, there is a greater chance of Aston Villa winning the European Cup again during my lifetime and Elvis Presley being found alive and well.

PS: Perhaps a high speed line from Edinburgh to Vannes via and calling at Douglas, Dublin, Cardiff, and Truro?

Ha it was refering just to Edinburgh to Cardiff , and there has been a train service before.

 

[xotGD]

Ha it was refering just to Edinburgh to Cardiff , and there has been a train service before.

"The Principality" - used to be a pair of 50s to New Street on a Saturday.

 

[cle]

Would it run via Newcastle or via Preston? I’d think the latter and via Shrewsbury as the quickest route.

 

[whhistle]

Possibly because First are struggling financially, Virgin and Stagecoach failed with the East Coast which May mean that only one Of the bidders has not ran into problems, yet.

I don't even know which bit of my post you're replying to.
Maybe next time edit my post in your quote so it only shows the relevant part.

A friend who works for First bus say they're looking to dump the buses but keep the trains.
Don't know where this rumour has come from that First are wanting (to actively) sell their train division.

 

[Jorge Da Silva]

This part

What have you seen to make you think MTR are the preferred bidders?

Sorry, should have made it clear.

Possibly because First are struggling financially, Virgin and Stagecoach failed with the East Coast which May mean that only one Of the bidders has not ran into problems, yet.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I think you'll find MTR has some significant problems of its own, related to construction problems and corporate governance in Hong Kong.
In the UK, they can't be happy with the situation on SWR, or the delay with Crossrail completion.
Its WCP partner Guangsheng is unknown in the UK.
DfT has to weight up all this with the bids in the name of "deliverability".
I wouldn't write off any of the bidders yet.

 

[Jorge Da Silva]

I think you'll find MTR has some significant problems of its own, related to construction problems and corporate governance in Hong Kong.
In the UK, they can't be happy with the situation on SWR, or the delay with Crossrail completion.
Its WCP partner Guangsheng is unknown in the UK.
DfT has to weight up all this with the bids in the name of "deliverability".
I wouldn't write off any of the bidders yet.

Crossrail isn’t their fault. SWR I forgot about but again that is First as well as MTR. But I see your point.

 

[ScotTrains]

Ha it was refering just to Edinburgh to Cardiff , and there has been a train service before.

I am almost certain Cross Country used to have a service from Dundee, possibly Aberdeen, to Cardiff Central. It was at least 10 years ago and may have been due to an extended engineering period, though I can't remember. Can anybody confirm?

 

[takno]

I am almost certain Cross Country used to have a service from Dundee, possibly Aberdeen, to Cardiff Central. It was at least 10 years ago and may have been due to an extended engineering period, though I can't remember. Can anybody confirm?

Fairly sure there were regular trains down the route 10-15 years ago. You're going back to a time when the Scotland-Brimingham trains were XC though, and more destinations were served generally, so the pattern looked pretty different.

 

[swt_passenger]

I am almost certain Cross Country used to have a service from Dundee, possibly Aberdeen, to Cardiff Central. It was at least 10 years ago and may have been due to an extended engineering period, though I can't remember. Can anybody confirm?

Maybe have a look at the current XC thread in the ‘nostalgia’ sub-forum, where a discussion of the intended Princess timetable and the repercussions is going on at the moment.
(Swansea) Cardiff and Aberdeen are linked on route VT4 :
https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/operation-princess-cutbacks.169153/#post-3618402

 

[KashmireHawker]

If this is true, we may have bidders today. If not of which I guess many suspect, just 4 weeks or so to hold off.

This from the EOI Info document.

 

[Up_Tilt_390]

At what point will we find out who is planning to bid for the new franchise? I presume we will know at some point, and I've been curious for a while now to see whether Virgin will try and get it back after losing it a decade ago. I also wish to see if FirstGroup want to have a try with it as well and see what they can come up with.

 

[DenmarkRail]

If this is true, we may have bidders today. If not of which I guess many suspect, just 4 weeks or so to hold off.

This from the EOI Info document.

View attachment 52542

Won’t happen today. They’re always late