Cross Country - Get Some Extra Carriges

[starrymarkb]

I've noticed some Class 220 XC trains on the Bournemouth Manchester line have 4 coaches and some have five.

Are there 4 and 5 car Class 220's or do XC put in an extra carriage on the more heavily used trains?

They always seem very full to me and could all do with two or three extra carriage each

Those will be 221s. As a General Rule 4car=220 and 5car=221 (do XC have any of the 4 car 221s or were they all with Virgin)

 

[1018509]

Those will be 221s. As a General Rule 4car=220 and 5car=221 (do XC have any of the 4 car 221s or were they all with Virgin)

Thanks for that.

Weymouth/Manchester is nearly always 4 cars with the occasional 5 thrown in. On Saturday I noticed that at least one Reading/Newcastle service was 4 cars.

I get the impression that all these XC class 22* are far too short.

What and when is their next upgrade likely to be?

 

[thefab444]

(do XC have any of the 4 car 221s or were they all with Virgin)

XC have one of the 4 car 221s - 221141.

 

[ainsworth74]

I get the impression that all these XC class 22* are far too short.

What and when is their next upgrade likely to be?

They are indeed too short but as for upgrade I'm not sure what you mean? Do you mean interior refresh or something else?

If you do mean interior work I would anticipate that some work will be done in the five years of so as they are approaching ten years in service now and are certainly due.

There is a plan that has been suggested by Bombardier to extend the 22xs into longer formations and also enable them to run off of overhead wires (making them Bi-mode) but that plan is likely dead in the water due to the number of different organizations that would have to cooperate (Bombardier, XC, VT, EMT, DfT, Network Rail and perhaps ORR) to make it happen but also finding money to make it happen.

 

[Buttsy]

If longer Voyagers had been ordered though Operation Princess wouldn't have been possible in the planned form as they would have been too long to reverse in the bays at Reading.

Only if they'd been more than 5 cars. Most XC trains are 4 car. Oh for the pant car idea to go ahead... 5 car on NE & NW-SE, 6 car NE & NW-SW. More seats but probably still to few...

 

[1018509]

They are indeed too short but as for upgrade I'm not sure what you mean? Do you mean interior refresh or something else?

I meant new rolling stock, but then again I am naïve.

Is the 22* class unique that in it's day to day life in encounters third rail, OHE and non-electrified routes all in one journey?

 

[jopsuk]

Must be some diesel services in the north west that share short sections with merseyrail and go under the wires?

 

[tbtc]

Must be some diesel services in the north west that share short sections with merseyrail and go under the wires?

Anything which does Liverpool - Manchester via Warrington (including the services to Skegness and Norwich) would fit that bill.

 

[starrymarkb]

HSTs meet third rail at Reading, and Paddington is under the wires. Same for the Turbos.

Marshlink 171s meet 25kV at Ashford and 3rd Rail near Ore

 

[tbtc]

HSTs meet third rail at Reading

Is the Third Rail at Reading confined to the platforms in the South East corner of the station?

(am at work, so no access to Quail etc)

 

[Greenback]

Is the Third Rail at Reading confined to the platforms in the South East corner of the station?

(am at work, so no access to Quail etc)

Yes - IIRC there is a connection but there is no third rail.

 

[thefab444]

The only platforms at Reading that are electrified are 4A and 4B. As mentioned, there is a connection between the GWML fast lines and the Windsor lines, but this is not electrified.

 

[swt_passenger]

Thanks for that.

Weymouth/Manchester is nearly always 4 cars with the occasional 5 thrown in. On Saturday I noticed that at least one Reading/Newcastle service was 4 cars.

That should be Bournemouth...

People do keep saying the Bournemouths are mostly 4 cars, but as a regular user of XC through Southampton I'd suggest it isn't quite as obvious as that. It certainly isn't just the occasional train, of course neither is it 50/50.

However of the Reading services that extend to/from Southampton, I think they are mostly 4 car.

 

[1018509]

That should be Bournemouth...

People do keep saying the Bournemouths are mostly 4 cars, but as a regular user of XC through Southampton I'd suggest it isn't quite as obvious as that. It certainly isn't just the occasional train, of course neither is it 50/50.

However of the Reading services that extend to/from Southampton, I think they are mostly 4 car.

Indeed I meant Bournemouth. Living in view of a section of the line, it does seem that the appearance of a 5 car 21* is random but there do seem to be more about on Saturdays.

Note to me: must stop saying cars when I mean carriages. Too long with LUL/Tube Lines

 

[Martin_1981]

Was surprised to see that the Manchester - Paignton trains on summer Saturdays are now just single Voyagers. The 1005 ex Paignton yesterday was pretty wedged out of Exeter, but was nothing compared to the 0825 ex Penzance, which was just a 4 car yesterday and left lots behind.

4 coach Voyagers on Manchester-Paignton holiday trains is ridiculous beyond belief. They need to be double Voyagers or better still, XC should hire in additional HST's like they did a couple of years ago, or even better, hire in one or 2 rakes of MK2 or MK3 coaches with Class 57's or 67's to run between Manchester and Paignton. The surplus Voyager(s) could then be used to strengthen trains such as Penzance-Glasgow.

With reference to the weekday HST diagrams, I feel that these should be amended to enable the 0900 Glasgow-Penzance and 0828 Penzance-Glasgow to be HST operated. After all, XC reduced the HST diagrams to 2 instead of 4 back in Dec 2009 and then increased them to 4 again in Dec 2010. Any reasons why this could not be done?

 

[MCR247]

4 coach Voyagers on Manchester-Paignton holiday trains is ridiculous beyond belief. They need to be double Voyagers or better still, XC should hire in additional HST's like they did a couple of years ago, or even better, hire in one or 2 rakes of MK2 or MK3 coaches with Class 57's or 67's to run between Manchester and Paignton. The surplus Voyager(s) could then be used to strengthen trains such as Penzance-Glasgow.

With reference to the weekday HST diagrams, I feel that these should be amended to enable the 0900 Glasgow-Penzance and 0828 Penzance-Glasgow to be HST operated. After all, XC reduced the HST diagrams to 2 instead of 4 back in Dec 2009 and then increased them to 4 again in Dec 2010. Any reasons why this could not be done?

USING WHAT STOCK?!?! ALL OF THE SPARE COACHES & LOCOS THAT ARE SITTING AROUND READY FOR USE?!?!

What spare HSTs exactly? Care to share? I'd love to see them sat in a field ready for use?! Firstly HSTs are maintained in Leeds. Do you really think HST choose to put HSTs on services that are empty all the way through, just for jokes?!

 

[TheBigD]

Just to clarify, the Paignton was a 5 car voyager, the Penzance was the 4 car one.

 

[RobShipway]

USING WHAT STOCK?!?! ALL OF THE SPARE COACHES & LOCOS THAT ARE SITTING AROUND READY FOR USE?!?!

What spare HSTs exactly? Care to share? I'd love to see them sat in a field ready for use?! Firstly HSTs are maintained in Leeds. Do you really think HST choose to put HSTs on services that are empty all the way through, just for jokes?!

Is there not HST's kept at Old Oak Commond by FGW and do they really use all of them? Somehow I cannot see HST's travelling down from Leeds each morning to do the services from Paddington???

I seem to remember FGW having a couple spare extra to the spare vehicles that they would keep for services, so I presume with not having the Class 180's anymore that would not be the case?

 

[swt_passenger]

Is there not HST's kept at Old Oak Commond by FGW and do they really use all of them? Somehow I cannot see HST's travelling down from Leeds each morning to do the services from Paddington???

Cross Country's HSTs are maintained in Leeds. That's the main reason they run south and then back north each weekday, the diagrams get them to Leeds on every other night for maintenance, and in between they are stabled overnight at Craigentinny, Edinburgh.

Diagramming them any other way on weekdays does not achieve the aim of having each HST passing through the core route twice thereby increasing capacity between Birmingham and Leeds when it is needed. If they are in Penzance in the early morning they cannot be in Leeds.

And lastly, since XC last used only two HST's daily they are running about 6 extra trains each to/from Glasgow and Southampton.