Cross country garbage.

[ValleyLines142]

I have to admit, I think the Voyagers are FANTASTIC! I think they're very stylish trains! I must admit some services can be overcrowded, but most of the time they're alright (although I have to say, having only noticed over the past few days, the 0700 from Cardiff really should be a 221 if possible; it gets absolutely heaving on the way to Bristol and from Severn Tunnel don't expect to get a seat!).

In contrast, I went on an XC HST the other day from Temple Meads to Parkway and I really wasn't impressed. My legs were absolutely ruined, after a mere ten minutes. The legroom is absolutely atrocious in every seat (unless First Class) and the headrests are like rock. I think they are absolutely horrendous. I much prefer FGW HST's. I don't see what people love about the XC HSTs. I try and avoid them at all costs. I realise they have 7 coaches, meaning less overcrowding, but if you could see the 1625 Plymouth to Leeds on Sunday, every seat was taken. I don't see what the obsession is to be honest. And to think that Voyagers replaced these in the first place!

I think if Voyagers were formed of 6 or 7 coaches then it wouldn't be too bad. I think they would be perfect. EMT seems to be okay with their Meridians so I don't see why XC can't do the same. And also an air freshner wouldn't go a miss!

One other point I do love about XC is the 10% off advanced fares with an NUS card, and that is on top of a 16-25 card, if you have one. As such, I can travel from Cardiff to Bristol for £4.45 return! (although that is arriving at Bristol at 0751 and not leaving until 2015 the same day, a twelve hour day in Bristol could drag). But that's broken down into £2.95 out and £1.50 return. Good to see how they've teamed up with Grand Central on this offer too, although I'm surprised Arriva Trains Wales don't offer it, considering XC is run by the Arriva group!

 

[DarloRich]

Perhaps because VT/EC are London-centric TOCs with high profit margins, whereas XC is a regional/commuter TOC with surprisingly low profit margins and short journey times?

or they just dont give a sh*t.

Is all first class types do whine about not getting free stuff? Us cattle class inmates are happy with a seat rather than this view for 3 hours

 

[johnnychips]

Rich, don't see the significance of thumbnail?

 

[DarloRich]

Rich, don't see the significance of thumbnail?

because if you get on the wrong train at the wrong time,while our first class chums moan about no free snacks, us mere mortals in cattle class will be squashed into the vestibule with a view of the toilet or, if you are very lucky, a plastic panel.

 

[ainsworth74]

because if you get on the wrong train at the wrong time,while our first class chums moan about no free snacks, us mere mortals in cattle class will be squashed into the vestibule with a view of the toilet or, if you are very lucky, a plastic panel.

You seem to have a real problem with first class? Any particular reason? I mean if people want to pay extra for what that (supposedly) offers why shouldn't they? And why shouldn't they complain when that offer fails to materialise? I don't get why you're so mocking?

 

[DarloRich]

You seem to have a real problem with first class? Any particular reason? I mean if people want to pay extra for what that (supposedly) offers why shouldn't they? And why shouldn't they complain when that offer fails to materialise? I don't get why you're so mocking?

because i am skint and jealous.

I have no problem with first class. I have a problem with first class dwellers complaining ALL THE TIME about how terrible it is to be given free refreshments.

I have to PAY for a cup of tea if i want one on the train. They dont and they still whine! If they dont like it send the free brews and butties my way!

AND while we are on i am MOST fed up with those with a bloody kids railcard complaining. You get free food and a 1/3 off. Barstewards

 

[ainsworth74]

because i am skint and jealous.

A good reason

AND while we are on i am MOST fed up with those with a bloody kids railcard complaining. You get free food and a 1/3 off. Barstewards

I'm just... Er... Bye!

 

[johnnychips]

It doesn't seem that the First Class offering in XC is wonderful, but I could understand that if it was, second class passengers would wonder why a Third World toilet smell was considered acceptable while those people a carriage down were being served with quails' eggs and caviar, even if they had paid for it.

 

[DarloRich]

It doesn't seem that the First Class offering in XC is wonderful, but I could understand that if it was, second class passengers would wonder why a Third World toilet smell was considered acceptable while those people a carriage down were being served with quail's eggs and caviar, even if they had paid for it.

I think the real bonus of XC first class is that you stand a chance of getting a seat on any train at any time

 

[Firesprite]

Why does everyone hate XC ???

Because their owned by the Germans

 

[Temple Meads]

The only decent (or half decent) seats in cattle on a Voyager are those extra room ones for the elderly

A lot of people criticise Voyager seats, but apart from a lack of legroom if I'm trying to relax I don't find them that bad at all (not that legroom is really anything to do with the actual seats), certainly they are just the right side of firm, and seem well shaped and well sized.

The above is all totally "IMO" of course, as seats are really subjective.

 

[williamus]

I'm sure they used to , but may be confusing them with Voyagers on EDB to BHM

You're sort of both right... I think beyond those far outposts of society you had to collect your prized snack box from the buffet and then run the gauntlet down four overcrowded carriages (stepping over Rich on the way) back to your seat.

The snack box! What was that about? The packaging must have cost ten times the contents and the lid had a nasty habit of refusing to stay open... and when you did manage to open it, it really wasn't worth the effort, was it? Yet I never heard anyone refuse one...

 

[HSTEd]

With regards to the luggage racks:

Luggage doesn't buy tickets.

 

[LexyBoy]

With regards to the luggage racks:

Luggage doesn't buy tickets.

People don't pay for a seat either.

If people choose to travel by train but struggle with luggage (their own or others) then they may choose not to travel by train next time.

 

[HSTEd]

People don't pay for a seat either.

If people choose to travel by train but struggle with luggage (their own or others) then they may choose not to travel by train next time.

And they will be replaced by another set of people who do not need to carry such luggage.

In the end it is still a net benefit to XC.

Now if we were just trying to increase the modal share of rail transport rather than simply make the best return on investments.......

To summarise: XC want overcrowding as it is simply sweating the assets.
If you think XC operates to do anything other than make the highest return on its assets possible, you are being hopelessly naive.

 

[Yew]

This week I've been on several xc trains and was unimpressed by their standards. For example, the luggage space on the HST's is shockingly inadequate. Unless your lucky enough to board the train at the large luggage space then forget it, as the the space at the end of the coach is pointless. Might as well rip it out and cram another pair of seats in. Also, I don't think anyone would be offended if the toilets got emptied from time to time. Rant over.

HST's (assuming you mean a Class 43 locomotives and mk3 carriages, as opposed to the generic term 'Hish speed train') Do not have retention tanks, so do not need emptying.

Unfortunately many TOC's have little in the way of luggage, with overhead racks and maybe 1/2 carriage racks, However I think you can ask for any large suitcases to be put in spare space in the power cars.

 

[Greenback]

And they will be replaced by another set of people who do not need to carry such luggage.

In the end it is still a net benefit to XC.

Now if we were just trying to increase the modal share of rail transport rather than simply make the best return on investments.......

To summarise: XC want overcrowding as it is simply sweating the assets.
If you think XC operates to do anything other than make the highest return on its assets possible, you are being hopelessly naive.

There is a limit though. If they really wanted to sweat the assets and maximise revenue they could remove most or even all of the seats to allow even more people to cram on and stand!

 

[Ascot]

How can you resist the Shepherds Pie?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Butts]

How can you resist the Shepherds Pie?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Looks like an Asda £1 microwave special

 

[Goatboy]

If you think XC operates to do anything other than make the highest return on its assets possible, you are being hopelessly naive.

Is that another reason why a private organisation with a legal duty to maximise shareholder value is a less appropriate body to run a rail network than a publically owned organisation with a duty to provide a social service? Sounds like it to me..

 

[Kettledrum]

........

Perhaps the entire concept of the franchise and the services it operates need to be redefined.

On a slightly more humourous level, is it because they is rubbish?

Not sure why the concept of the franchise needs to be redefined.

I travel a lot with X country - both short distances and long distances. The trains are often very full, and the prices are very high - so this should be a roaring success from the operator's perspective.

As a passenger I also really appreciate not having to change trains, so the long cross country routes are popular with passengers like me.

It's just a shame that cross country never seems to have enough rolling stock to meet the demand - but there not the only TOC with this problem.

 

[wintonian]

I travel a lot with X country - both short distances and long distances. The trains are often very full, and the prices are very high - so this should be a roaring success from the operator's perspective.

It is (a victim of its own success some would say), but then I believe the concept business ethics is being discussed in another thread.

 

[Greenback]

Looks like an Asda £1 microwave special

Tesco Value?

Is that another reason why a private organisation with a legal duty to maximise shareholder value is a less appropriate body to run a rail network than a publically owned organisation with a duty to provide a social service? Sounds like it to me..

I think so too, but prevailing opinion is that private is betyer than public, and that the state cannot run organisations as well as the private sector.

Not sure why the concept of the franchise needs to be redefined.

I'm not sure it does. But redefining the terms of the franchise, so that there is funding somewhere for anew fleet of better trains, might be a good idea.

Other people prefer the idea that the XC routes are split to fall within other franchises, but I'm not convinced of that.

I travel a lot with X country - both short distances and long distances. The trains are often very full, and the prices are very high - so this should be a roaring success from the operator's perspective.

Indeed, it should be, but it does not appear to be the case, if their financial results are anything to go by.

As a passenger I also really appreciate not having to change trains, so the long cross country routes are popular with passengers like me.

Indeed. I have previously argued that the greatest benefit of XC is the ability to make through journeys on flows such as Sheffield to Cheltenham, or Basingstoke to Manchester without needing to change trains.

It's just a shame that cross country never seems to have enough rolling stock to meet the demand - but there not the only TOC with this problem.

The point with XC is that the most of the traisn they do have ar enot fit for purpose. The Voyager is not good enough (in my opinion) for long distance travel due to its cramped design and lack of capacity for both people and luggage.

Boyagers are also not suitable for the sort of short and medium distance commuting such as taunton to Bristol, as they do not have the optimum layout to allow speedy boarding and alighting, or the traditional short distance type seating seen on other commuter routes.

I do think that the real problem is that XC is attempting to be all things to all people, and this is not only the fault of XC/Virgin, but also comes down to the way the railway industry is organised and run in this country.

 

[HSTEd]

It's just a shame that cross country never seems to have enough rolling stock to meet the demand - but there not the only TOC with this problem.

That have enough stock to ensure that most of it is full quite a lot of the time.
This is the optimum.

Why should they run longer and more expensive trains when they may calculate that they get optimum rates of return from the current situation?
The ICWC bidders only want more stock so they can mount ORCATs raids/subsidy farms on other routes.

 

[Kettledrum]

That have enough stock to ensure that most of it is full quite a lot of the time.
This is the optimum.

Why should they run longer and more expensive trains when they may calculate that they get optimum rates of return from the current situation?

This is one of the fundamental problems with the current franchise system - and it's not working in the public interest. There is no incentive to invest in new rolling stock or better facilities - and we're left with cattle class services, without the wider social or economic benefits that a world class railway would be bringing.

In the case of X Country, the taxpayer has awarded them a franchise that allows them to charge us high fares for cramped travel. Why didn't the franchise require additional rolling stock to be purchased or used - That way the company would have to work much harder.

 

[Starmill]

Tesco Value?

Hahaha! Dontcha mean "Everyday value" these days.

Seriously though, the proliferation of these XC voyager bashing threads seems strange... I happened to glance at an empty 221 at Manchester Pic the other morning, clearly before it had done much in the way of service (first run? About 07:40) and it looked rather nice! And as for the slight whiff of sewage... I've had that on EVERY single pendolino I've been on as well - and the public impression of those is very positive!

 

[wintonian]

Hahaha! Dontcha mean "Everyday value" these days.

Seriously though, the proliferation of these XC voyager bashing threads seems strange... I happened to glance at an empty 221 at Manchester Pic the other morning, clearly before it had done much in the way of service (first run? About 07:40) and it looked rather nice! And as for the slight whiff of sewage... I've had that on EVERY single pendolino I've been on as well - and the public impression of those is very positive!

Maybe it's an Arriva thing.

 

[Monty]

I've never been a fan of the voyagers even back in Virgin days let alone XC, the trains are far too short and there is never enough of then to go around to lengthen them. The toilets are horrible and with most DEMU/DMUs you feel the vibrations from the engines from your seat. I concede to the fact they may well offer a more reliable, faster and punctual service. But at least with a 47 and mk2s you could almost always get a seat and the ride was a lot smoother!

 

[Temple Meads]

Looks like an Asda £1 microwave special

I'd happily eat it if it was £2 myself....



Unfortunately we're talking about XC here

 

[ert47]

HST's (assuming you mean a Class 43 locomotives and mk3 carriages, as opposed to the generic term 'Hish speed train') Do not have retention tanks, so do not need emptying.

Always wondered about that fine spray I often get in the face when a fast train passes through Newark...
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How can you resist the Shepherds Pie?

I'd enjoy that if the fork wasnt broken...