• Our new ticketing site is now live! Using either this or the original site (both powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Cross Country Cancellations - Emergency Timetable

Status
Not open for further replies.

ChrisC

Established Member
Joined
7 Oct 2018
Messages
2,261
Location
Nottinghamshire
I travelled on the 0845 from Cardiff to Nottingham this morning and it was a 2 carriage 170. There was no problem getting a seat at Cardiff but train was full and standing from Gloucester and absolutely rammed between Worcestershire Parkway and Birmingham. You would think that with the following 0945 temporarily not running with the so called emergency timetable that XC could have provided at least a 3 carriage 170 on the 0845.
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

TheBigD

Established Member
Joined
19 Nov 2008
Messages
2,043
There's also a diagram in the Stansted route today that has been covered by a 2 car vice 3. I'm guessing that XC are short of available 3 cars today.
 

Snow1964

Established Member
Joined
7 Oct 2019
Messages
11,147
Location
West Wiltshire
Not XC only, but DfT has just updated its post covid spreadsheet

Columns G and H (rail usage, with and without Elizabeth line)
For most recent few days 21 Aug to 1st Sept

each day ranges from 100-105% (with Elizabeth line) of pre covid
90-94% excluding Elizabeth line

94% is rather higher than proportion of Cross Country trains actually running

 

GoneSouth

Established Member
Joined
17 Dec 2018
Messages
1,489
Very.

If hou are running half a service, but every train is twice as long, then the capacity provided is the same.
But for example you can’t replace an hourly Cardiff train that has 2 coaches with one train every 3 hours that has 6 coaches and claim you’re providing the same service, that’s clearly nonsense
 

duffield

Established Member
Joined
31 Jul 2013
Messages
3,288
Location
East Midlands
But for example you can’t replace an hourly Cardiff train that has 2 coaches with one train every 3 hours that has 6 coaches and claim you’re providing the same service, that’s clearly nonsense
And anyhow,from what I've seen, the emergency timetable on the Cardiff to Nottingham route (every two hours at certain times instead of hourly) does not seem to necessarily compensate with extra capacity. If running half the services meant they would double up the remaining ones they wouldn't be running 3 coach trains after a two hour gap, it would be at least 2+2.
 
Joined
26 Jun 2019
Messages
212
And anyhow,from what I've seen, the emergency timetable on the Cardiff to Nottingham route (every two hours at certain times instead of hourly) does not seem to necessarily compensate with extra capacity. If running half the services meant they would double up the remaining ones they wouldn't be running 3 coach trains after a two hour gap, it would be at least 2+2.
There has certainly been no increase in double Voyager operation on he Bournemouth to Manchester services despite the cancellation of most of the York/Newcastle services plus one Manchester and two Bournemouth services.
 

vicbury

Member
Joined
17 Mar 2012
Messages
1,052
Location
Lydney
And anyhow,from what I've seen, the emergency timetable on the Cardiff to Nottingham route (every two hours at certain times instead of hourly) does not seem to necessarily compensate with extra capacity. If running half the services meant they would double up the remaining ones they wouldn't be running 3 coach trains after a two hour gap, it would be at least 2+2.
Indeed, my train manager on Wednesday repeatedly apologised for the crowding, blaming it on Transport for Wales cancellations as far as Cheltenham, then blaming it on the emergency timetable beyond. Coming back from Birmingham my service was cancelled due to animals on the line so I had to endure an absolutely rammed four car Voyager to Cheltenham, followed by the joys of a TfW 153. Ah, train travel.
 

GoneSouth

Established Member
Joined
17 Dec 2018
Messages
1,489
Indeed, my train manager on Wednesday repeatedly apologised for the crowding, blaming it on Transport for Wales cancellations as far as Cheltenham, then blaming it on the emergency timetable beyond. Coming back from Birmingham my service was cancelled due to animals on the line so I had to endure an absolutely rammed four car Voyager to Cheltenham, followed by the joys of a TfW 153. Ah, train travel.
Surely not a single 153 on that route? I’ve passed a few of their new 197s? recently which were 3 coaches I think.

XC staff blaming others is a bit rich, taking company loyalty a little too far i think!
 

thingie

New Member
Joined
14 Sep 2024
Messages
2
Location
London
Ironically some of these trains still seem to be running as 5, or god forbid, 4 coaches long. Imagine what it would be like in one of those trains?
 

vicbury

Member
Joined
17 Mar 2012
Messages
1,052
Location
Lydney
Surely not a single 153 on that route? I’ve passed a few of their new 197s? recently which were 3 coaches I think.

XC staff blaming others is a bit rich, taking company loyalty a little too far i think!
A pair of 153s fortunately but they are still awful things. The next day there was indeed a one-car 153 doing Maesteg - Cheltenham.

Fair enough blaming TfW in my opinion when their prior service was cancelled.
 

GoneSouth

Established Member
Joined
17 Dec 2018
Messages
1,489
A pair of 153s fortunately but they are still awful things. The next day there was indeed a one-car 153 doing Maesteg - Cheltenham.
Lovely! Welcome back to 1987!
Fair enough blaming TfW in my opinion when their prior service was cancelled.
Yeah I suppose so, sounds like they’re both incredibly unreliable to me. It’s just worse from my point of view when XC promised they would increase capacity of trains whilst their “emergency” timetable was in operation. They mostly haven’t!
 

Peterthegreat

Established Member
Joined
22 Feb 2021
Messages
1,798
Location
South Yorkshire
Very.

If hou are running half a service, but every train is twice as long, then the capacity provided is the same.
That may be fine if each train was twice as long. But they are nowhere near.
Pre-covid there were usually two trains per hour between Newcastle and Birmingham, one via Leeds and one via Doncaster. This would provide at least 8 coaches per hour (possibly up to 13). Yesterday there were at least 6 trains southbound through York which were single sets.
Similarly between Birmingham and Reading there were two trains per hour providing similar capacity as Newcastle to Birmingham. Yesterday only a couple of Manchester to Bournemouth trains were double sets.
No wonder people are up in arms re overcrowding.
 

duffield

Established Member
Joined
31 Jul 2013
Messages
3,288
Location
East Midlands
So in addition to XC's well known driver shortage, which they are supposed to be remedying during the emergency timetable, are they short of other on-train staff, train managers etc., so they can't run some double sets (it's been stated here that XC, unlike some operators, always require both units to be staffed if carrying passengers), or is there some other reason they don't appear to be using the "spare" units freed by the emergency timetable?
 

Peterthegreat

Established Member
Joined
22 Feb 2021
Messages
1,798
Location
South Yorkshire
So in addition to XC's well known driver shortage, which they are supposed to be remedying during the emergency timetable, are they short of other on-train staff, train managers etc., so they can't run some double sets (it's been stated here that XC, unlike some operators, always require both units to be staffed if carrying passengers), or is there some other reason they don't appear to be using the "spare" units freed by the emergency timetable?
One of the few remaining Newcastle to Reading services was cancelled today due to set shortage!
 

Bikeman78

Established Member
Joined
26 Apr 2018
Messages
6,181
But for example you can’t replace an hourly Cardiff train that has 2 coaches with one train every 3 hours that has 6 coaches and claim you’re providing the same service, that’s clearly nonsense
Especially given that some of the trains that do run are still two cars, e.g. the 1645 from Cardiff to Nottingham.
 

sprinterguy

Veteran Member
Joined
4 Mar 2010
Messages
11,573
Location
Macclesfield
So in addition to XC's well known driver shortage, which they are supposed to be remedying during the emergency timetable, are they short of other on-train staff, train managers etc., so they can't run some double sets (it's been stated here that XC, unlike some operators, always require both units to be staffed if carrying passengers), or is there some other reason they don't appear to be using the "spare" units freed by the emergency timetable?
The three units released from Newcastle - Reading services are being used to strengthen services: Two on Edinburgh - Plymouth, one on Manchester - Bournemouth/Bristol.
One of the few remaining Newcastle to Reading services was cancelled today due to set shortage!
Two Voyagers were separately involved in fatalities on Monday, which has probably impacted fleet availability.
 

duffield

Established Member
Joined
31 Jul 2013
Messages
3,288
Location
East Midlands
The three units released from Newcastle - Reading services are being used to strengthen services: Two on Edinburgh - Plymouth, one on Manchester - Bournemouth/Bristol.

Two Voyagers were separately involved in fatalities on Monday, which has probably impacted fleet availability.
OK, fair enough, but what about the 170 routes, particularly Nottingham to Cardiff, which has been badly affected by the emergency timetable? I haven't noticed any strengthening there, but maybe I'm looking at the wrong services.
 

sprinterguy

Veteran Member
Joined
4 Mar 2010
Messages
11,573
Location
Macclesfield
OK, fair enough, but what about the 170 routes, particularly Nottingham to Cardiff, which has been badly affected by the emergency timetable? I haven't noticed any strengthening there, but maybe I'm looking at the wrong services.
Must admit I'm less familiar with the 170 services, travelling on them less often, so I'm not sure if there's been any change to train lengths there.
 

43055

Established Member
Joined
8 Mar 2018
Messages
3,687
OK, fair enough, but what about the 170 routes, particularly Nottingham to Cardiff, which has been badly affected by the emergency timetable? I haven't noticed any strengthening there, but maybe I'm looking at the wrong services.
If I'm not mistaken there looks to be a second 4 car 170 diagramed which is the one that does includes the 1207 Nottingham to Cardiff. In the normal timetable I think there is just 1 4 car.
 

Mugby

Established Member
Joined
25 Nov 2012
Messages
2,131
Location
Derby
Nottingham - Cardiffs were badly affected yesterday (Sunday) 1149 BHM-NOT cancelled, 1316 and 1512 NOT-CDF both cancelled, also 1145 CDF-NOT cancelled.

I arrived at Tamworth at 1400 on an LNW service from Crewe to change for Derby. The 1406 was cancelled and the following service, a Plymouth to Newcastle was just a 4-car Voyager. Needless to say conditions were horrendous!
 

duffield

Established Member
Joined
31 Jul 2013
Messages
3,288
Location
East Midlands
Nottingham - Cardiffs were badly affected yesterday (Sunday) 1149 BHM-NOT cancelled, 1316 and 1512 NOT-CDF both cancelled, also 1145 CDF-NOT cancelled.

I arrived at Tamworth at 1400 on an LNW service from Crewe to change for Derby. The 1406 was cancelled and the following service, a Plymouth to Newcastle was just a 4-car Voyager. Needless to say conditions were horrendous!
XC on a Sunday on the Nottingham to Cardiff route seems even more of a disaster than the rest of the week. Last time I was planning to use it, the 0955 ran (that service is typically overcrowded, it's timed far too late for the first train to Birmingham and should be a double), then the 1116 and 1216 were cancelled. So nothing from Nottingham for 3 hours 21 minutes unless you tried to cram onto whatever Voyager turned up after getting to Derby on the sparse Sunday EMR service.

I dread to think what the 1316 was like, lucky for me I was only going to Derby so I went via East Midlands Parkway as there were no convenient direct EMR services at the time.

Basically the message is to avoid XC at weekends unless you've got extra hours to spare and don't mind standing (on the plus side though you've got a good chance of getting some or all of your fare back).
 

duffield

Established Member
Joined
31 Jul 2013
Messages
3,288
Location
East Midlands
As we are now approaching the scheduled end of the emergency timetable, are there any indications yet as to whether XC will actually revert to a "normal" timetable from 10th November, and if so, whether the necessary drivers will have been trained in time to actually run it with a reasonable degree of reliability?
 

OrangeJuice

Member
Joined
4 Jun 2018
Messages
210
As we are now approaching the scheduled end of the emergency timetable, are there any indications yet as to whether XC will actually revert to a "normal" timetable from 10th November, and if so, whether the necessary drivers will have been trained in time to actually run it with a reasonable degree of reliability?
Given that there are a few partial cancellations at reading this evening on Bournemouth services because of a shortage of train drivers I'm not so sure.
It would be great if they could return to normal
 

WAB

Established Member
Joined
27 Jun 2015
Messages
1,297
Location
Anglia
As we are now approaching the scheduled end of the emergency timetable, are there any indications yet as to whether XC will actually revert to a "normal" timetable from 10th November, and if so, whether the necessary drivers will have been trained in time to actually run it with a reasonable degree of reliability?
The regional service was very heavily disrupted due to lack of traincrew last weekend, and there are still a number of cancellations on most days due to a lack of traincrew. This does not give me confidence that they will be able to return to the full timetable, particularly as there is an ongoing drain of resources through retirements. The whole industry is facing a wave of traincrew retirements, but the age profile is particularly serious at XC.
 

Snow1964

Established Member
Joined
7 Oct 2019
Messages
11,147
Location
West Wiltshire
As we are now approaching the scheduled end of the emergency timetable, are there any indications yet as to whether XC will actually revert to a "normal" timetable from 10th November, and if so, whether the necessary drivers will have been trained in time to actually run it with a reasonable degree of reliability?

Cross Country specifically said temporary reductions until Saturday 9th November, so would be false advertising if they now renage on what was stated and widely advertised, and don't restore full service from Sunday 10th November, instead continuing a not full timetable.

The exact words in various press releases back in July were
"By the end of the temporary timetable, CrossCountry will have more fully-trained drivers able to work across the network and will have reduced its training backlog – providing a more reliable service for customers, with fewer cancellations."

It says fewer cancellations, although that could be anything from 1% less to 99% less
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top