Cross Country and Connections

[johnnycache]

There seem to be a lot of fares routed Cross Country and Connections that seem to be redundant

For instance

Liverpool to Brighton on webTIS

Using the "show slower routes" facility i can see:

Southern & London Midland Advance fares at £10 (I'm looking at Monday 08 April at 0930) via Birmingham, Watford Junction, Clapham Junction

VWC and Connections gives alternatives via London including using LM to Crewe and connecting into Virgin there

via Cross Country trains and other connecting services gives the same options as VWC

So i'm asking myself - what are these fares for?

 

[LexyBoy]

It sounds like they're a relic of the days XC ran down to Brighton (and Liverpool for that matter). I can't get WebTIS to offer an itinerary with this routeing either, but perhaps someone in a ticket office could (since WebTIS will override routes valid with this routeing with faster routes).

 

[soil]

The LM Advances are not listed on BRfares http://brfares.com/#fares?orig=0435&dest=BTN&rlc=

The XC fares are to a different southern cluster (T211) from the VWC fares (T281). The northern cluster is the same, T222.

However the clusters are identical with the exception that cluster T281 includes Buxted and Uckfield but T211 does not. T211 OTOH includes Gatwick Airport, Three Bridges and Ifield.

For VWC, Gatwick, Three Bridges and Ifield are in a different cluster, with a slightly cheaper fare, T278.

XC don't have an Advance fare for Uckfield and Buxted.

The fares are set in large clusters, and because of the minor differences in these clusters I guess that's why there are different fares.

 

[greatkingrat]

The LM/Southern advances only appear on BRFares if you look for 2246 Liverpool Lime Street rather than 0435 Liverpool Stations.

 

[LexyBoy]

However the clusters are identical with the exception that cluster T281 includes Buxted and Uckfield but T211 does not. T211 OTOH includes Gatwick Airport, Three Bridges and Ifield.

WebTIS will offer CrossCountry & Connections tickets for Gatwick (not tried the others), albeit some of them with only Birmingham-Reading on XC.

 

[soil]

WebTIS will offer CrossCountry & Connections tickets for Gatwick (not tried the others), albeit some of them with only Birmingham-Reading on XC.

Yes, it was the XC cluster that grouped Gatwick with BTN. VWC groups GTW in a cheaper fare cluster.

 

[johnnycache]

I looked at Birmingham to Liverpool on brfares.com and there are 9 sets of fares!

For walk up fares there is only one and it uses route 00287 via Crewe

So my first observation is that if i wanted to travel on the permitted route from map ME via Wolverhampton, Shrewsbury, Wrexham and Hooton there doesn't seem to be a ticket i can buy

Secondly i wondered if i could actually buy one of the XC and connections fares and i nearly made it

By putting via Tamworth or via Coleshill Parkway on the national rail journey planner these Advance fares (£12.50, £16.50 and £20.50) do indeed become available (not via Nuneaton strangely)

But when i tried to buy one i was transferred to the Cross Country site which defaulted to the normal £9 London Midland only Advance fare!

 

[soil]

It's quite common for their to be 'via X' fares only, even though an 'Any Permitted' ticket would have other routes available.

 

[RJ]

The Advance system is a new case study in my fares research piece. It's amazing just what can be done with the & Connections fares...

*Ticking timebomb set off*

 

[kieron]

For walk up fares there is only one and it uses route 00287 via Crewe

So my first observation is that if i wanted to travel on the permitted route from map ME via Wolverhampton, Shrewsbury, Wrexham and Hooton there doesn't seem to be a ticket i can buy

I suppose the people to ask about this would be ATW. For Shotton-Birmingham or Chester-Birmingham, ATW set a Shrewsbury route, and LM set an Any Permitted one. For the time being, you'd have to split tickets at Capenhurst or somewhere to get the flexibility.

The routes via Birkenhead and Wrexham are a lot slower than the WCML ones, though.

 

[johnnycache]

I work for Southern

It seems to me that a basic requirement of our system of permitted routes is that a ticket should exist that actually permits travel on permitted routes!