cross country advanced fares

[samuel paul]

I have been chatting to a train manager friend of mine and he has told me that monday - thursday no advanced purchase before 09.30 , fridays none at all after 12.00 and non at all avaliable on sundays , it seems they are cutting them out big time, he also said that there are still a few in the system but when they have gone thats when they will start cutting them out

 

[Auximines]

I'm not surprised. They have no capacity, no cash and no new trains before the summer ends. What else can they do? They inherited a dog's dinner of a franchise.

 

[jv3531]

You will find that around the summer holidays for some reason T Ops do tend to drop the available number of seats for some un-known reason. I think personally its all to do with profit making, sommer holidays people want and sometimes have to travel by train to get to their destination. I have known them before that unless you by a reservation you cant even get on them! Before they scrapped supersavers they were barred during july and august as well usually too.

 

[furryfeet]

is this just for the summer OR is it permanent ?

Going off AXC's record - i.e. big fare rises, i suspect that this is the latest "wheeze" to force people to pay high fares, or avoid the train altogether, so that AXC do not get fined for overcrowding.

Is this the thin end of the wedge ?

Will there be a "trigger level" at which the number of trains per day / week with APEX tickets falls to such a low level that the regulatory authorities are forced to act ?

 

[me123]

I have noticed that the 0914 ex MTH is no longer selling AP tickets, which is a shame because I find that a very reliable service. (That said, I think I'd rather go down the East Coast on a 225 than a Voyager...)

 

[John @ home]

Will there be a "trigger level" at which the number of trains per day / week with APEX tickets falls to such a low level that the regulatory authorities are forced to act ?

No. Advance tickets are not regulated fares. TOCs choose to sell them to fill seats which they believe would otherwise go empty.

John

 

[samuel paul]

Spoke to my mate again he said that they use a yield managment system that gives them the advanced purchase numbers, he said that this will just be the start this is just not for the summer, all the number of passengers on a train are entered into the ticket machine then onto the yield managment system, he has also said that they are only going to accept resevations only for bikes so no reservation no bikes , so that is a pain as i use my bike all the time on the train and they will only have two spaces instead of four

 

[91101]

I have to paraphrase my friend Barry Doe on this issue, (and when I say friend, I mean it the loosest possible sense as its very rare that I agree with Mr Doe)

At Christmas time in the retail sector there is a vast demand for gifts and toys. Due to this vast demand retail businesses do not have sales promotions, they don't need them, its their busiest time of the year after all, no need to persaude people to part with their cash when its the one time of the year they will virtually give it away to the shops! The oppisate of course - Janurary Sales, sales are slow, their is a big surplus of stock. Its simple supply and demand.

Dirt Cheap AP's are there to make money out of excess capacity, and just as you wont see Harrods offering 75% off in the week before Christmas, you're unlikely to see as many Aberdeen-Penzance for a £5 at the height of the summer.

I agree with the concept to a certain degree, but I dont like AP tickets to be honest, I think that their role should be as a marketing exorcise for excess capacity at off peak times, with the remainder being a more evenly priced, and less restricted saver.

 

[voyagerdude220]

Well I 100% agree with you 91101, that for some people, walk-up travel is just far, far too expensive these days, especially for the average leisure traveller, further more still for retired passengers, who may or may not know about any railcard discounts which they maybe eligible for.

As many already know, I like to get a good bargain in FC, using AP singles, but only because I have the ability to pick and choose both when, and where I go.

If, however, I was like many members of the public, who may just decide to travel at short notice, for what ever reason, or didn't want to use AP tickets, simply because they like the flexibility of walk-up fares, or purely didn't like the aspect of booking in advance, i'd be heavily complaining about the over the top costs of walk-up tickets.

I frequently say this to people when they ask me about train tickets... It can work out to be great value if your'e able to both specify, and be flexible with travel dates etc, and book well in advance of travel , but if you buy tickets on the day, it's often (but not 100% of the time) a rip off.

Especially for groups of people/families travelling together...

Many people I know end up driving, as it's alot cheaper, and they have the ability to drive around at their destination.

I don't know about the cheapness factor, now that the cost of fuel has gone up so dramatically recently, but still think the difference between car & train in that example still wouldn't warrant a train journey?

 

[TEW]

Cross Country AP tickets have just got stupid now. I can't afford to pay for walk on fares and like taking advantage of the cheap AP tickets but there are none for XC meaning I have no chance of getting to Bristol or Birmingham.
FGW on the other hand offer brilliant AP deals such as £6 PNZ-EXD each way.

 

[voyagerdude220]

FGW, for all the negative publicity they often get, have, IMO, usually had the largest flow of far cheaper, more superior value for money, compared to other "Intercity" TOCs, e.g. XC.

I was shocked when XC first introduced their 5-tier AP single fares, but more precisely, they began to offer even the cheapest of the lot, on already very busy peak services!

Although services in the peak hours are obviously bound to be busier than off-peak services, I still think that there are still a small number of services during these times which do have a few empty seats available..

Not many, but i'm pretty certain that not 100% of the 220/221 workings are full to standing in the peak hours- just a large number?

 

[Techniquest]

Agreed that FGW APs are more reasonable value for money. For instance, back in May I did Bristol to Exeter on a AP fare with FGW for just £2.65 (Y-P fare). Coming back, it was £6.60 on AXC. Inferior transport (as much as I love the Voyagers, the HSTs will always rule supreme) costing much more. Riiiiiiiiiight.

Not happy with AXC removing AP fares, although it does explain why they have become incredibly hard to find. It will be the beginning of the end for cheap travel for anyone, and if it keeps going like this people WILL desert rail travel in droves. When going on a family holiday, it's better to take the car than to fork out hundreds of pounds for rail travel.

I'll be stuffed for cheap travel at the rate AXC are chomping away their AP fares. Less travelling means less passengers, meaning more empty seats, meaning less income for the TOCs...The answer to relieving capacity is to get more new trains in, trains with a decent amount of capacity in the first place (again, as much as I love Voyagers they are grossly unsuited to XC work purely on a capacity basis), trains that have lots of seats in them and not half-filled with disabled toilets, stupidly small shops and excessively sized vestibules.

I stand by my opinion that increasing capacity is the only way forward. More people travel by train now than ever before, this much is a well known fact. It is high time the industry reacted accordingly and ordered in some stock that meet today's capacity requirements and provides more for tomorrow's needs. Removing AP fares is not the way to encourage people to travel. Granted, you can't expect there to be cheap fares on all trains, but you should be able to expect cheap fares to remain on off-peak trains (this does include Sunday in most people's eyes). But the capacity...I will use an example:

Friday 25th July 2008's 1724 Birmingham New Street to Cambridge service is standing on platform 12a. Announcements say to use the front two carriages only. As 170635 is also in the platform, most people assumed that 170112 (myself included I add) was the two carriages referred to. So this unit was rather full by 1722. Announcements were eventually made at 1723 on the unit to change to the front two carriages only. So off I go to find 170521 around the corner (out of sight as we came down the stairs). Miraculously, I find a seat on this unit, it now being 1724 and we should be off. 1729, and we finally get the RA, departing at 1730.

OK, so some common problems occur from the example above. It should be noted that I've noted these problems in a large number of locations, on many different services and on several different days. Let's have a quick look at the problem encountered last week:

1. Lack of clear signage on arrival at platform level on platform 12 does not make it clear which part of the platform you are on or where your part of the platform is. If you are in a hurry (as I was at this particular time), you don't tend to look by the roof for letters.
2. 170112 and 170521 were both coupled together, but the additional capacity allowed by the presence of this train was not used (locked OOU on departure from Birmingham). Also, 170521 was out of sight to passengers arriving on the platform and with no clear signage, it was obviously people were going to get on the wrong train.
3. 6 minutes late leaving Birmingham with no reason whatsoever obvious (no announcements as to why we left late were offered either) does not leave good impressions upon passengers either. I alighted at Coleshill Parkway, so I do not know what sort of loading the service had afterwards, but it was rather full, with many people forced to cram into the vestibules. No air-con on a warm day for those passengers cannot left them with much of an impression either.

The above problems occur all over the country, this is not an isolated incident by any stretch of the imagination. I still want to know why the extra capacity could or would not be used on this train on Friday, same for the delayed running.

I'll finish this with reporting of a note a disgruntled passenger left on 170112 on Saturday 26th July 2008, noted by myself on a poster about AXC's improvements:

"Just running on time would be great"

I'm sure most of us would agree with that.