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Cricklewood to Lincoln trip in August.

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miklcct

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I have booked an Advance ticket from Cricklewood - Lincoln on 21 August a while ago, but the Cricklewood - London St Pancras Thameslink train no longer exists and is bustituted.

My itinerary now is:
Thameslink (bus) 08:42 Cricklewood - 08:52 West Hampstead Thameslink
Thameslink 09:00 West Hampstead - 09:10 London St Pancras
Walk 09:20 London St Pancras - 09:21 London Kings Cross
LNER 09:33 London Kings Cross - 11:29 Lincoln

My journey is time-critical as I'm racing in Lincoln. Is this bus reliable enough that I can trust it bringing me to West Hampstead on time for the 09:00 train?
 
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30907

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I have booked an Advance ticket from Cricklewood - Lincoln on 21 August a while ago, but the Cricklewood - London St Pancras Thameslink train no longer exists and is bustituted.

My itinerary now is:
Thameslink (bus) 08:42 Cricklewood - 08:52 West Hampstead Thameslink
Thameslink 09:00 West Hampstead - 09:10 London St Pancras
Walk 09:20 London St Pancras - 09:21 London Kings Cross
LNER 09:33 London Kings Cross - 11:29 Lincoln

My journey is time-critical as I'm racing in Lincoln. Is this bus reliable enough that I can trust it bringing me to West Hampstead on time for the 09:00 train?
I thought the interchange time at STP-KGX was 31min? Has that changed?
 

Sankey Wire

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About 15 months ago, my last train was due to be replaced by a bus, as it often is through the week. There was only me and the station supervisor waiting for it and after 15 minutes had past since the scheduled arrival / departure, he made a call and was reassured it would be on its way. A further 15 minutes passed and there was still no sign.

Keen to get home himself, the supervisor kindly gave me a lift home but he was under no obligation to and would probably have got into bother for it, especially with Covid still a theme.

Since then, I haven’t risked it!
 

Watershed

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I thought the interchange time at STP-KGX was 31min? Has that changed?
It's officially 31 minutes but some journeys planners have a manual 'override' in place which reduces this to a more sensible 21 minutes.
 

Roger1973

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My journey is time-critical as I'm racing in Lincoln. Is this bus reliable enough that I can trust it bringing me to West Hampstead on time for the 09:00 train?

Gut feeling is it sounds like you might be pushing your luck - doesn't allow a lot of recovery time if anything goes wrong.

Rail replacement buses are subject to traffic jams (relatively unlikely that early on a Sunday) - and the railway people involved in their planning tend to expect them to take the same amount of time to get from A to B at any hour of the day on a Sunday, which traffic conditions mean is rarely possible - sometimes it means daytime buses are always late, sometimes it means early morning / late evening coaches tend to run early.

They generally won't hold a train for a late running rail replacement bus (they might if it's the last journey of the day.)

Breakdowns can happen even to the best of operators, and a lot of bus / coach operators are short of drivers at the moment, so the chances of a duty not being covered are possibly higher than they used to be.

When FCC ran the Thameslink lines, their rail replacement bus / coach operations would usually have a spare / stand-by coach or bus somewhere in the mix, usually at each end of the route, so a missing coach could be covered and the public wouldn't notice the difference, although a breakdown would take longer to rescue. I haven't encountered a GTR Thameslink rail replacement operation, so can't say if they still do the same.

I'm not expert on rail ticketing, but I suspect the reservation / journey specific bit of your ticket is for the Kings Cross to Lincoln bit. How about starting from Cricklewood half an hour earlier? (if there is a journey half an hour earlier that is.) I'll let others comment on whether that's acceptable - I can't imagine a rail replacement bus driver / controller would bother about time restrictions on a ticket, but I would not want you to have bother at W Hampstead or St Pancras Thameslink.

Alternatively (and I realise there will be an additional cost to this) are there any direct TFL buses from Cricklewood to Kings Cross? (NW London isn't really my speciality and I'm not quite up to date with recent TFL bus route changes) - or get a bus round to somewhere on the Northern line or Jubilee line and change at Baker Street (assuming they haven't got engineering work as well.)
 

miklcct

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Gut feeling is it sounds like you might be pushing your luck - doesn't allow a lot of recovery time if anything goes wrong.

Rail replacement buses are subject to traffic jams (relatively unlikely that early on a Sunday) - and the railway people involved in their planning tend to expect them to take the same amount of time to get from A to B at any hour of the day on a Sunday, which traffic conditions mean is rarely possible - sometimes it means daytime buses are always late, sometimes it means early morning / late evening coaches tend to run early.

They generally won't hold a train for a late running rail replacement bus (they might if it's the last journey of the day.)

Breakdowns can happen even to the best of operators, and a lot of bus / coach operators are short of drivers at the moment, so the chances of a duty not being covered are possibly higher than they used to be.

When FCC ran the Thameslink lines, their rail replacement bus / coach operations would usually have a spare / stand-by coach or bus somewhere in the mix, usually at each end of the route, so a missing coach could be covered and the public wouldn't notice the difference, although a breakdown would take longer to rescue. I haven't encountered a GTR Thameslink rail replacement operation, so can't say if they still do the same.

I'm not expert on rail ticketing, but I suspect the reservation / journey specific bit of your ticket is for the Kings Cross to Lincoln bit. How about starting from Cricklewood half an hour earlier? (if there is a journey half an hour earlier that is.) I'll let others comment on whether that's acceptable - I can't imagine a rail replacement bus driver / controller would bother about time restrictions on a ticket, but I would not want you to have bother at W Hampstead or St Pancras Thameslink.

Alternatively (and I realise there will be an additional cost to this) are there any direct TFL buses from Cricklewood to Kings Cross? (NW London isn't really my speciality and I'm not quite up to date with recent TFL bus route changes) - or get a bus round to somewhere on the Northern line or Jubilee line and change at Baker Street (assuming they haven't got engineering work as well.)
If the Thameslink train is not available, the next best way for me to get to St Pancras is to take a bus 16 / 32 / 316 / 332 to Kilburn, get on the Jubliee, then change at Finchley Road for Metropolitan. However, as a bus is involved, I'm also subject to traffic instability as well so I decided to rebook my train ticket rather than taking a refund and buy again from St Pancras.

The rail replacement bus and also the train from West Hampstead Thameslink to London St Pancras are unreservable, so I can take any reasonable connection.

I'm thinking if the C11 bus route can be a fallback in case the rail replacement bus doesn't show up, as it runs on the same route to West Hampstead Thameslink, but the timetable doesn't seem that I can do it this way (08:40 then 09:00). However, Google Maps suggest that if I get back to Cricklewood Broadway for the route in the first paragraph I will still make it on time, getting to Kings Cross at 09:21.

However, if the rail replacement bus do turn up late, I can still take the 09:07 West Hampstead - 09:23 train as a fallback, but it will be too late if I miss the 09:07 West Hampstead train.

I will get to the train station first, however, if the bus doesn't appear on time at 08:42, what will be my best chance to make my journey on time?
1. Continue to wait for the delayed bus, hope it shows up on time for the 09:07 West Hampstead train.
2. Get back to Cricklewood Broadway immediately, hope that a 16 / 32 / 316 / 332 bus shows up on time and take the underground afterwards.
3. Run 2 km to West Hampstead station for the train, and hope that the road is flat enough for me to run at 9 - 10 km/h such that I can arrive the station before the 09:07 train.
 

30907

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It surely depends on whether your arrival time is critical. If so, travel earlier. If not, you can claim delay repay based on the itinerary you were given.
 

miklcct

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It surely depends on whether your arrival time is critical. If so, travel earlier. If not, you can claim delay repay based on the itinerary you were given.
My arrival time is critical but travelling earlier is also not an option, as I'm travelling on the first itinerary of the day. I'm thinking if I need a contingency plan to reroute if it doesn't show up on time or I can trust the rail replacement bus even if it comes later than the schedule.
 

30907

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In which case I'd be more inclined to use bus and tube from your nearest stop.
 

JonathanH

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I think there is more danger of the bus running early than late given it comes from St Albans. In any case, there is one half an hour earlier from Cricklewood all the way through to St Pancras arriving at 0852.
 

Bigchris

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I have booked an Advance ticket from Cricklewood - Lincoln on 21 August a while ago, but the Cricklewood - London St Pancras Thameslink train no longer exists and is bustituted.

My itinerary now is:
Thameslink (bus) 08:42 Cricklewood - 08:52 West Hampstead Thameslink
Thameslink 09:00 West Hampstead - 09:10 London St Pancras
Walk 09:20 London St Pancras - 09:21 London Kings Cross
LNER 09:33 London Kings Cross - 11:29 Lincoln

My journey is time-critical as I'm racing in Lincoln. Is this bus reliable enough that I can trust it bringing me to West Hampstead on time for the 09:00 train?
Sorry if I don't know all the specifics but would you be able to just get to the nearest tube station and go direct to Kings X and miss out the faff with trying to get to West Hampstead as this strikes me as far easier (and quicker anyway). Willesden Green is 0.8 miles from Cricklewood station and Golders Green 1.5 miles, tube from either of those to Kings X should take no more than 15 minutes, direct service from Golders Green or changing at Finchley Road if going from Willesden Green (and no long walk if changing at Finchley Road as the 2 lines use the same island platform). I'd also say the tube has more redundancy as if you miss one the next one will only be a few minutes behind.
 

duncanp

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Part of the problem is that you are travelling the day after the RMT strike, which means that National Rail services for the affected TOCS (including Thameslink) on 21st August will start later than normal.

Buses 226 and 260 run from Cricklewood to Golders Green, and buses 260 and 266 run from Cricklewood to Willesden Green.

The Jubilee, Metropolitan and Northern lines are unaffected by engineering works on the morning of 21st August, and will enable you to get to Kings Cross in plenty of time for your train to Lincoln.
 

miklcct

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Buses 226 and 260 run from Cricklewood to Golders Green, and buses 260 and 266 run from Cricklewood to Willesden Green.
The best way for me to access the tube is the bus 16/32/316/332 to Kilburn.

However, as I need to use a bus, I'm placing myself at the same risk of a bus not turning up on time.
 

JonathanH

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The best way for me to access the tube is the bus 16/32/316/332 to Kilburn.

However, as I need to use a bus, I'm placing myself at the same risk of a bus not turning up on time.
But you don't need to look at other buses or the connection at West Hampstead because the replacement bus goes all the way to St Pancras.
 

miklcct

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But you don't need to look at other buses or the connection at West Hampstead because the replacement bus goes all the way to St Pancras.
The longer the bus goes, the more risk I suffer from the traffic.

Taking a replacement bus all the way to St Pancras will make me expose to more traffic risk (bus not arriving St Pancras on time) compared to taking a bus to Kilburn or West Hampstead.

Has anyone here tried to run the Cricklewood - West Hampstead segment when the railway doesn't operate? If it is flat enough it will be the lowest-risk option to me to get the 09:07 train there when I don't see the replacement bus coming on time.
 

JonathanH

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The longer the bus goes, the more risk I suffer from the traffic.
Yes, but there is a fourty minute gap between arriving at St Pancras and your train from Kings Cross.

The route from Cricklewood into St Pancras taken by the bus isn't one with significant traffic risk on a Sunday morning.

Has anyone here tried to run the Cricklewood - West Hampstead segment when the railway doesn't operate?
Cricklewood to West Hampstead Thameslink is only a mile or so on foot. Easily walkable.

Can you not just walk to Kings Cross if you are concerned about traffic and transport delays? It is only five miles from Cricklewood.
 
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miklcct

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Yes, but there is a fourty minute gap between arriving at St Pancras and your train from Kings Cross.

The route from Cricklewood into St Pancras taken by the bus isn't one with significant traffic risk on a Sunday morning.
I'm taking the 0842 bus, rather than 0812.
 

Bald Rick

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Given that it is only just over a mile to walk from Cricklewood station to W Hampstead station, and that you are evidently a fit individual, just walk to West Hampstead!
 

Mike99

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I noticed that the TfL journey planner suggests a 08:14, Route 189 bus from Cricklewood to Baker Street Station then a Route 205 bus to Kings Cross, arriving 08:51. A cost of £1.65 (excluding if you have a reduction of a railcard on your Oyster)

Considering (traffic) disruption on the day, it is always a possibility, (on any form of transport) that a delay could occur and would be something to filter in. From many many years of travelling in London (1969 onwards) it's always best to give some leeway for journey times, best too arrive early and relaxed than anxiously clock watching and not enjoying the journey.

As regards your journey generally at that time on a Sunday morning it will probably be traffic free, the only slight build up of traffic could be as the 205 waits to join the Eastbound Bus Lane outside Euston Square underground station with cars waiting to avoid, entering the camera controlled bus lane. Even the this could just be a minute or two.
 
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miklcct

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I got to the replacement bus stop 5 minutes before the scheduled departure time and waited for it. However the replacement bus did not appear on time. Meanwhile I saw a C11 bus passing the stop on time at 08:40, 2 minutes before my scheduled departure time on the replacement bus.

I saw nothing came afterwards until 09:50:00 when I started to run straight to the next train station, West Hampstead Thameslink. At 08:58:50 I saw my train to St Pancras arrived the station while I was just outside, and at 08:59:20 I boarded the train.

Meanwhile, the first 2 southbound trains of the day calling at Cricklewood are both cancelled, resulting in a Brighton train making extra stops along the route.

Sorry, but at this time the rubbish Thameslink has failed me again.
 

Bald Rick

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when I started to run straight to the next train station, West Hampstead Thameslink.

as above, I’m not sure why you didn’t just plan to do this anyway (at walking pace) and save yourself the worry about reliability of the bus.
 

miklcct

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as above, I’m not sure why you didn’t just plan to do this anyway (at walking pace) and save yourself the worry about reliability of the bus.

I really don't want to walk that 2 km (a long way) unless it's absolutely necessary as a last resort, and if I started walking at 08:37 (5 minutes before the replacement bus departure time), I could barely get to West Hampstead on time (compare my normal walking speed at 5 km/h and running speed at 12 km/h) unless I ran a bit as well.
 

Bald Rick

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I really don't want to walk that 2 km (a long way) unless it's absolutely necessary as a last resort, and if I started walking at 08:37 (5 minutes before the replacement bus departure time), I could barely get to West Hampstead on time (compare my normal walking speed at 5 km/h and running speed at 12 km/h) unless I ran a bit as well.

2km is hardly a long way for a walk, especially when you are a seasoned runner!
 

JonathanH

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2km is hardly a long way for a walk, especially when you are a seasoned runner!
Perhaps the OP feels that a 2km walk affects their form in the later running challenge, although I'm pretty sure it should act as a good relaxant warm up at the start of the day. Even at their stated walking pace, 2km is only 24 minutes walking.

I see the train basically arrived in Lincoln on time after its delayed start.
 

Bald Rick

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Perhaps the OP feels that a 2km walk affects their form in the later running challenge, although I'm pretty sure it should act as a good relaxant warm up.

I see the train basically arrived in Lincoln on time after its delayed start.

with a couple of hours on the train to cool down between walk and run!
 

Mike99

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I got to the replacement bus stop 5 minutes before the scheduled departure time and waited for it. However the replacement bus did not appear on time. Meanwhile I saw a C11 bus passing the stop on time at 08:40, 2 minutes before my scheduled departure time on the replacement bus.

I saw nothing came afterwards until 09:50:00 when I started to run straight to the next train station, West Hampstead Thameslink. At 08:58:50 I saw my train to St Pancras arrived the station while I was just outside, and at 08:59:20 I boarded the train.

Meanwhile, the first 2 southbound trains of the day calling at Cricklewood are both cancelled, resulting in a Brighton train making extra stops along the route.

Sorry, but at this time the rubbish Thameslink has failed me again.
Should have done what I suggested in post #20, No running, Minimal walking, no stress, comfortable journey, No clock watching. I'm beginning to think you are a very unlucky traveller :)
 

miklcct

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Should have done what I suggested in post #20, No running, Minimal walking, no stress, comfortable journey, No clock watching. I'm beginning to think you are a very unlucky traveller :)
The departure time in post #20 is 08:14 but my scheduled departure time is 08:42. I'd rather to have nearly half an hour in bed in the morning!
 
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