Cricket

[muddythefish]

He certainly needs to be fired, along with the head coach and at least four players should not play ODI cricket for England again.

The ECB took their top seeding for the World Cup so seriously that they demanded the rescheduling of the 2014-15 Ashes series to give them better preparation for the World Cup. I'm guessing that joining Afghanistan and Scotland in being chewed up and spat out by Pool A is a little below the result they had in mind when they went so far as rescheduling an Ashes series!

We're allowed to slag off England - because they're ours.

You're not.

 

[Cletus]

Seems to be quite an old Australian squad?

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Seemingly being annoyed about media speculation in certain quarters, Peter Moores, the England coach, has issued a retort that all he is focused upon at the present time is the tour of the West Indies....and not at all on Kevin Pietersen.

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I know that some "Invitational" XI in tour matches are better than others but noting that the St Kitts & Nevis Invitational XI only lasted a brief matter of 26.4 overs of which no less than 11 of which were maidens in compiling their innings total of 59 all out against a touring England team makes one wonder if they were only there to add a false sense of security in the England team for the coming tour matches.

 

[Busaholic]

Seemingly being annoyed about media speculation in certain quarters, Peter Moores, the England coach, has issued a retort that all he is focused upon at the present time is the tour of the West Indies....and not at all on Kevin Pietersen.

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I know that some "Invitational" XI in tour matches are better than others but noting that the St Kitts & Nevis Invitational XI only lasted a brief matter of 26.4 overs of which no less than 11 of which were maidens in compiling their innings total of 59 all out against a touring England team makes one wonder if they were only there to add a false sense of security in the England team for the coming tour matches.

England duly filled their boots, Cook on course for a century that normally he'd probably hardly celebrate. But now?...

 

[Oswyntail]

...only there to add a false sense of security in the England team for the coming tour matches.

As the matches are arranged for the players to acclimatise, I would say "job done" (are you DownSouth in disguise, Paul?)

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

As the matches are arranged for the players to acclimatise, I would say "job done" (are you DownSouth in disguise, Paul?)

Nothing remotely of an antipodean trait in my personage.

I might well be a Cheshire "lord of the manor" in terms of residence these days, but the blood of the Red Rose flows through my veins. I really must try to find out from what branch of the Plantagenets my mother came.

 

[Busaholic]

England almost finished the job against St Kitts, which considering it was a two day match in which England's one innings occupied more than a day is some doing! However, the opposition was probably of the quality of Leicestershire's 2nd XI so not too much can be read into it. Bell's score of 16 from 58 balls with just one boundary against this opposition is worrying though, and I fear he may no longer be the player he was two or three years ago: we shall see.

 

[Western Lord]

England almost finished the job against St Kitts, which considering it was a two day match in which England's one innings occupied more than a day is some doing! However, the opposition was probably of the quality of Leicestershire's 2nd XI so not too much can be read into it. Bell's score of 16 from 58 balls with just one boundary against this opposition is worrying though, and I fear he may no longer be the player he was two or three years ago: we shall see.

That is a great insult to the Leicestershire 2nd XI! The standard of the opposition appeared to be a minor counties 2nd XI on a bad day.

 

[DownSouth]

Bell's score of 16 from 58 balls with just one boundary against this opposition is worrying though, and I fear he may no longer be the player he was two or three years ago: we shall see.

That appears to have been Ballance with that score, not Bell who hit a healthy 59 before retiring to give some more practice to the middle order.

Bell's recent form against real international teams is not bad - his World Cup scores of 36, 8, 54, 49, 63, 52* made him the team's highest scorer, inside the top 20 for the group stage. While his career is certainly far closer to the end than the start, standing up as the best batsman in the World Cup fiasco should see his spot secure enough that he'll get to retire on his own terms when the time is ripe.
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These days, the quality of the local side depends on how much the touring side is willing to pay for (can be cash or gate receipts) and of how the home board balances the impact on their first class competition.

What is most embarrassing is when a touring team fields a strong team against a youth team or a bunch of second-stringers left over from that week's first class fixture and still gets shown up.


In more competitive matters than a 14-a-side practice match, the Youth Test at the WACA looks like all three results (and the draw) will still be possible on the final day with England finishing the third day with a 57 run lead and five wickets in hand in the third innings.
The Australia U19 side features one second-generation famous name - Tom Healy is the son of Ian Healy and younger cousin of current Australia keeper Alyssa Healy.

 

[Busaholic]

That is a great insult to the Leicestershire 2nd XI! The standard of the opposition appeared to be a minor counties 2nd XI on a bad day.

You're probably right - difficult to gauge without seeing any of it. Six of their team have first class experience. Perhaps Cardiff University might be a fairer analogy.
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That appears to have been Ballance with that score, not Bell who hit a healthy 59 before retiring to give some more practice to the middle order.

.

My apologies to Bell - my information came from a previously-trusted source which omitted Ballance from the scorecard altogether! Cook, Trott and Ballance at the top of the order might signify solidity, but even if all three come off it's back to the days of Boycott, Edrich and Barrington, and two of those got dropped for slow scoring, one immediately after a double century in a test! We need a more dynamic opener, and Lyth should be given a chance.

Downton's sacking surely the prelude to Moores's, unless England pulverise WI with both bat and ball.

 

[DownSouth]

My apologies to Bell - my information came from a previously-trusted source which omitted Ballance from the scorecard altogether! Cook, Trott and Ballance at the top of the order might signify solidity, but even if all three come off it's back to the days of Boycott, Edrich and Barrington, and two of those got dropped for slow scoring, one immediately after a double century in a test! We need a more dynamic opener, and Lyth should be given a chance.

You can't draw too many conclusions about the selection of the First XI from the batting order in a full squad match where the 11 who bat and the 11 who field don't have to be the same 11 players.

You might have also noticed that Anderson, Broad, Stokes, Jordan, Rashid and Tredwell all bowled, from which the only conclusion you can draw is that they really don't want to play Plunkett unless they absolutely have no alternative.

In the second "match" the odds are being evened a bit by Trott (c Tredwell b Anderson 0), Ballance (c Buttler b Tredwell 17) and Bairstow (33 not out) batting for the St Kitts side. This would suggest that these three are the ones fighting for their spots in the England First XI. I wonder if Plunkett will get a run for the St Kitts XI later on?

Downton's sacking surely the prelude to Moores's, unless England pulverise WI with both bat and ball.

Surely that would just get him a stay of execution, pending the result of The Ashes.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

The second "pretend" match has some of the England team turning out for the St Kitts and Nevis XI who at one time before lunch were reduced to 55-4, but 98 from Bairstow and 89 not out from Root saw them advance from 198-8 to close the day at 303-9.

In only his second over, Broad had a problem and was off the field for a period of time receiving treatment. Jimmy Anderson seemed unperplexed by sudden bouts of scoring and returned a bowling analysis of 12-6-17-1.

How many top Test Match playing nations would require members of a touring side to help supplement the batting of a home side?

 

[Cletus]

Are there no stronger teams in the West Indies? We're resorting to playing basically inter-team games

New Zealand are playing warm-ups against Worcestershire and Somerset.
Australia are playing warm-ups against Kent and Essex.

 

[Greenback]

Cricket in the West Indies seems to be in a bit of a sad state. The mighty teams that I grew up watching seem to be a distant memory now.

 

[Arglwydd Golau]

Are there no stronger teams in the West Indies? We're resorting to playing basically inter-team games

New Zealand are playing warm-ups against Worcestershire and Somerset.
Australia are playing warm-ups against Kent and Essex.

Although, of course, counties do not put out their strongest teams when playing the tourists these days...I fondly remember going to see the Aus/WI and NZ touring teams in the 1960's against county opposition...large crowds and proper cricket!

Apparently Vaughan is in pole position to take on a role at ECB, wouldn't be my choice, he likes the sound of his own voice too much....

 

[Greenback]

Glamorgan didn't field their strongest sides against touring teams for as long as I can remember, which doesn't quite go back to the 1960's!

 

[Busaholic]

Glamorgan didn't field their strongest sides against touring teams for as long as I can remember, which doesn't quite go back to the 1960's!

Over the years the county sides have, in the main, fielded weaker and weaker sides against touring teams. In the 70s it was usually an overseas player who got rested, perhaps a fast bowler too, then in the 80s established Test players too and now even young turks who might get their names in the spotlight by producing a good performance may get left out too, sometimes of their own volition.

Mind you, touring teams sometimes leave their big guns out of these matches too, either because of niggling injuries, a perhaps misguided view that they don't need match practice or because they're playing in the IPL and will arrive just in time for the test series, a situation I regard as untenable.

 

[Greenback]

During my lifetime these games have been seen as an opportunity to rest important players, experiment with different bowling combinations, and give experience to promising youngsters.

I suspect that the ever increasing primacy of one day cricket these days has also had an effect, with these matches being seen as even less important than they were three decades ago.

 

[DownSouth]

How many top Test Match playing nations would require members of a touring side to help supplement the batting of a home side?

Not many others would have arrived for a tour with so many of their batsmen in such desperate need of cheap runs to build confidence and match awareness.

The ECB is doing it right here, they clearly understand that nets are good for working on technique but the only way to keep match awareness in shape is to get time in the middle (you don't have fielders to catch the ball and send you off for an early lunch in the nets) even if it's only against club-level opposition. Club-level is the right way to describe St Kitts, which is one of the eight members that make up the Leeward Islands Cricket Association.

Combine these contrived 14-a-side matches (more accurately, 'match simulations') with all the data analysis tools that the bloated high performance team has at their disposal, and the gain from them will be worth far more than a few weeks' worth of net sessions. All the players will keep their match awareness up by having a run out on a real oval, and the high performance team will get a whole load of data which can then be used to identify what each player needs to fine tune in net sessions.

Over the years the county sides have, in the main, fielded weaker and weaker sides against touring teams. In the 70s it was usually an overseas player who got rested, perhaps a fast bowler too, then in the 80s established Test players too and now even young turks who might get their names in the spotlight by producing a good performance may get left out too, sometimes of their own volition.

Part of the 'problem' here is that international cricket scheduling works on a system of reciprocation. When a team plays an away match, the home team is obliged to play an equivalent return match.

This applies to tour matches just as much as international matches. By allowing counties to get away with fielding non-competitive sides in 'first class' tour matches, England gives permission to their opponents to also allow their domestic boards to field weak sides when England are on tour.

It can be stopped - by a bilateral agreement between the two boards to field competitive domestic sides in tour matches and for the touring side to guarantee a minimum number of their First XI in tour matches (to bring in the crowds).

... playing in the IPL and will arrive just in time for the test series, a situation I regard as untenable.

Playing in the IPL does a far better job of keeping up match awareness than sitting in the dressing room and getting practice only in the nets.

But generally, playing club cricket is probably better in that it allows a player to remain acclimatised. Look at the Sydney Test last year - Scott Borthwick was out of his depth but did okay (far better figures than a certain spinner had against India at the SCG in 1992) as a result of playing real cricket all summer long, while Boyd Rankin wasn't even able to bowl out his first spell after spending the whole tour sitting in the England dressing room.

 

[Busaholic]

Playing in the IPL does a far better job of keeping up match awareness than sitting in the dressing room and getting practice only in the nets.

But generally, playing club cricket is probably better in that it allows a player to remain acclimatised. Look at the Sydney Test last year - Scott Borthwick was out of his depth but did okay (far better figures than a certain spinner had against India at the SCG in 1992) as a result of playing real cricket all summer long, while Boyd Rankin wasn't even able to bowl out his first spell after spending the whole tour sitting in the England dressing room.

I agree that playing in the IPL is better than sitting in the dressing room, or nets for that matter. Even B. McCullum though cannot be expected to make the jump from playing Twenty20 in India to a probably coldish and possibly damp England and play a commanding test innings: his position as captain, although unassailable, makes it even more difficult and not a good example for younger players.

Rankin, Tremlett and, especially, Finn were the victims of the most crass selection process I can ever remember in English test cricket, and my memory stretches back nigh on sixty years. Finn, the right selection, had so much confidence knocked out of him that, if he ever makes it back properly, it'll probably be only due to the ministrations of that wise old bird, the Middlesex coach Angus Fraser.

 

[Arglwydd Golau]

During my lifetime these games have been seen as an opportunity to rest important players, experiment with different bowling combinations, and give experience to promising youngsters.

I suspect that the ever increasing primacy of one day cricket these days has also had an effect, with these matches being seen as even less important than they were three decades ago.

Yes, I agree..I suppose I really am talking of a bygone age! The first touring team I saw was the West Indians against Northamptonshire ( nearest county ground) in 1966, only one of the WI team that played did not feature in the test series. It was just before the dawn of limited-over cricket, and there was little exposure on television, so to see Sobers, Kanhai, Hunte, Griffith and Gibbs in the flesh was marvellous. Northants fielded their strongest side (and won the game!).

 

[Busaholic]

Yes, I agree..I suppose I really am talking of a bygone age! The first touring team I saw was the West Indians against Northamptonshire ( nearest county ground) in 1966, only one of the WI team that played did not feature in the test series. It was just before the dawn of limited-over cricket, and there was little exposure on television, so to see Sobers, Kanhai, Hunte, Griffith and Gibbs in the flesh was marvellous. Northants fielded their strongest side (and won the game!).

The first ever game of first class cricket I saw was Kent v West Indies at Canterbury in, I think, 1957. I can't honestly remember much about it, but it made enough of an impression for me to still follow the game now. I'm pretty sure Worrell and Ramadhin played, but I'd have to look up the scorecard somewhere.

 

[Arglwydd Golau]

The first ever game of first class cricket I saw was Kent v West Indies at Canterbury in, I think, 1957. I can't honestly remember much about it, but it made enough of an impression for me to still follow the game now. I'm pretty sure Worrell and Ramadhin played, but I'd have to look up the scorecard somewhere.

Here you are:

http://static.espncricinfo.com/db/ARCHIVE/1950S/1957/WI_IN_ENG/WI_KENT_28-30AUG1957.html

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Here you are:

http://static.espncricinfo.com/db/ARCHIVE/1950S/1957/WI_IN_ENG/WI_KENT_28-30AUG1957.html

Roy Gilchrist bowled in the first innings. but not in the second innings of that match. He most certainly was a "loose cannon". Middleton CC in the Central Lancashire League had him as their professional for some time and I have never seen as many "beamers" bowled by a pace bowler as in his stay there.

 

[Whistler40145]

Was Paul Downton really the best man for the job?

Could Alec Stewart do any better?

 

[Bevan Price]

Was Paul Downton really the best man for the job?

Could Alec Stewart do any better?

Does it matter who is in charge if we don't have enough good players ?

We need at least a pair of really good, consistent, fast bowlers. Anderson is brilliant when the ball swings, but he is not fast enough in unhelpful bowling conditions. Another Trueman + Statham, or Willis + Snow combination would be helpful.

We also need a choice of 2 to 3 World class spin bowlers who can take wickets as well as slow down the scoring rate of the other site.

And we probably need totally separate batting squads for test matches & one day cricket. Smashing a quick 50 or 100 is fine for one day cricket, but for test matches, it is more important to score steadily and stay at the crease for at least 3 to 4 hours.

 

[Busaholic]

Here you are:

http://static.espncricinfo.com/db/ARCHIVE/1950S/1957/WI_IN_ENG/WI_KENT_28-30AUG1957.html

Thank you so much for that. I believe I attended the first day with my father, and my memory is of Kent batting and the West Indies bowling, which that accords with. So I must have seen Roy Gillchrist, Wes Hall, Gary Sobers and Sonny Ramadhin bowl - no wonder I remembered Sonny, he took 5 Kent wickets. Phebey and Wilson were the regular Kent openers for years: the first time I went to a cricket match on my own I saw them bat all day and establish a new record first wicket stand against Surrey at Blackheath. It could only go downhill from there

By the way, that was the full first team Kent XI at the time, including the test players Colin Cowdrey and Godfrey Evans.

 

[ainsworth74]

This is desperately sad:

Richie Benaud: Australia cricket legend & commentator dies at 84

Former Australia captain and legendary cricket commentator Richie Benaud has died at the age of 84.

A pioneering leg-spin bowler, Benaud played in 63 Tests, 28 as captain, before retiring in 1964 to pursue a career in journalism and broadcasting.

His final commentary in England came during the 2005 Ashes series but he continued to work for Channel Nine in Australia until 2013.

In November, he revealed he was being treated for skin cancer.

Source

The article doesn't say what he died of but if it was the skin cancer hopefully this will prove to be another reminder to both players and fans of the importance of proper protection whilst under the suns rays. Also the importance of getting anything suspicious checked by a doctor.

 

[Busaholic]

This is desperately sad:



Source

The article doesn't say what he died of but if it was the skin cancer hopefully this will prove to be another reminder to both players and fans of the importance of proper protection whilst under the suns rays. Also the importance of getting anything suspicious checked by a doctor.

I'm gutted. For me, he was the best cricket commentator on television ever, knowing when to stay silent and let the picture do the talking. He never babbled or made unnecessary small talk. I had a fantasy that he would lead a resurgent terrestial television cricket comeback come the revolution, given that his mother lived to be well over a hundred. A very sad day.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

England were all out for 222 in their response to the overnight declared total of the St Kitts and Nevis XI.

Trott seems to wish to prove a point about his batting uncertainty, as following on from his duck when acting as a guest player for the home side, he then compounded matters by being dismissed for the magnificent total of 2 when batting for the England side, which on being cynically viewed, can be said to be a mark of consistency....