Cricket

[Xenophon PCDGS]

With the paucity of confidence of the England batsmen, some wag on a cricket thread has suggested that even a group dosage of the strongest laxative would not give the current specialist England batsmen the runs...

 

[DarloRich]

Unsure how Andy Flower can keep his job after that dire performance. The England Football coach would have been dismissed as, I suspect, would the England rugby coach

 

[gswindale]

Unsure how Andy Flower can keep his job after that dire performance. The England Football coach would have been dismissed as, I suspect, would the England rugby coach

To be fair to him; he wasn't on the field playing exceptionally bad shots.

I always find it bizarre that the manager/coach gets the blame for the players poor performance which frequently does not improve after a change of manager.

Rather than calling for Andy Flower's head straight out; maybe we need to look into what was actually going through the players' minds on the pitch!

 

[DarloRich]

To be fair to him; he wasn't on the field playing exceptionally bad shots.

I always find it bizarre that the manager/coach gets the blame for the players poor performance which frequently does not improve after a change of manager.

Rather than calling for Andy Flower's head straight out; maybe we need to look into what was actually going through the players' minds on the pitch!

oh i would happily dump most of the players after that!

I would give them a reverse transportation then an open top bus tour of ignominy round London so we could all throw rotten fruit at them. They can take their bats, they wont hit anything!

Except Stokes.

 

[ainsworth74]

Except Stokes.

As a Durham supporter I find myself feeling a mixture of pride at his success and also annoyance as it means we probably won't have his services again!

 

[Phirstman]

Stokes and Broad can hold their heads up high with decent showings in adversity.

The rest were mentally weak.

Poor selections too. Root was unfortunate to be dropped for the Fifth Test. Unfair to make a young batsman the scapegoat when so many senior players around him have done worse and kept their place.

 

[DarloRich]

As a Durham supporter I find myself feeling a mixture of pride at his success and also annoyance as it means we probably won't have his services again!

As a fellow Durham supporter i agree! Defending the county championship will be hard this year! Stokes Onions and perhaps Borthwick out of the side for long periods

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Whilst Anderson did not have a good Test series, would anyone disagree that he has been worked to death in Test Matches over the last few years and what we see now is a direct result of this.

Do not forget that in recent years, it was Anderson who always made inroads in the top-order opposing batsmen which allowed the other England bowlers to get at the middle and lower order batsmen. Have a look at the number of wickets that he has taken for England in Test Matches.

If I was Anderson, I would announce my immediate retirement from all forms of International cricket and return to Lancashire in order to coach the new pace bowling attack players that are coming through the system at Old Trafford.

I am disgusted at the way that Anderson has been castigated at the present time, as he indeed has been a very loyal England player for many years, that Lancashire have been robbed of his services in that same time period.

 

[ainsworth74]

Indeed Paul, I'm not sure he should retire but I definetly think England have flogged the golden goose close to death and any accusation directed towards him should take account of this.

 

[Whistler40145]

I also agree that Jimmy Anderson has been over worked to the point where he isn't the bowler he used to be.

It doesn't help that when he's on top form, the others haven't been as productive or not available.

Is Tim Bresnan really good enough for Test Cricket? If not, which other all rounder could replace him?

Out of Boyd Rankin, Chris Tremlett & Steve Finn, who do you class as the best?

Also, should England follow Australia and pick a Left Arm quick?

 

[Arglwydd Golau]

I also agree that Jimmy Anderson has been over worked to the point where he isn't the bowler he used to be.

It doesn't help that when he's on top form, the others haven't been as productive or not available.

Is Tim Bresnan really good enough for Test Cricket? If not, which other all rounder could replace him?

Out of Boyd Rankin, Chris Tremlett & Steve Finn, who do you class as the best?

Also, should England follow Australia and pick a Left Arm quick?

Steven Finn....his action has been tinkered with ( a la Jimmy Anderson) and therefore he sat out the series. Even though he is relatively expensive, he does take wickets, and it might have been a good idea to let him get on with it, ie bowl as fast as he can!
Tremlett isn't the bowler he was in 2009/10, which confirmed what all the pundits were saying, Rankin is inexperienced.
I wonder whether Steven Finn will be able to recover? Anderson did, but it cost him about two years!
As regards Left Arm quicks, Tymal Mills is mentioned as a 'prospect'....but he has only a handful of f/c wickets, bring back John Lever! (for those who remember him!)

 

[Buttsy]

Everyone goes on about a new spinner to replace Swann - Borthwick, Kerrigan, Panesar and a number of others are also mentioned, but no-one seems to consider one the county championship's MVPs last season, Worcestershire's Moeen Ali, who can bowl off spin effectively and can also bat a bit...

Comments awaited

 

[ainsworth74]

I suspect that playing for a Division Two side is probably hurting him.

 

[Buttsy]

I suspect that playing for a Division Two side is probably hurting him.

That didn't stop Treadwell getting a call up

 

[Arglwydd Golau]

Guardian now reporting....'Flower may quit if Pietersen plays on'....arguably the best batsman in the England side for the last decade (only Cook could be another contender) can't seem to be managed effectively. Will KP be made the scapegoat for the Ashes debacle, I wonder?

 

[DownSouth]

Whilst Anderson did not have a good Test series, would anyone disagree that he has been worked to death in Test Matches over the last few years and what we see now is a direct result of this.

The problem in this most recent series was that Anderson and Broad were the only bowlers of international quality in the side (until Stokes got going, by which time they were both comprehensively beaten) with the others not even good enough to keep things moderately controlled enough to allow those two to come on for strike spells. Cook tried to use the others as stock bowlers, but that let our batsmen get so comprehensively on top of the situation that they could afford to just see off the first few overs (i.e. the dangerous ones) of an Anderson spell when he was brought back in to try and rein in the scoring.

Anderson is not the first quality England bowler to be undermined by a captain using him as a stock hack, Darren Gough and Steve Harmlesson had the same issues. The critical thing for Anderson right now is to get back to bowling short energetic spells at over 140 km/h to bring reverse swing back into play.

For a contrast, look at the near-perfect management of the bowling resources shown by Michael Clarke's unit. The reason that Mitchell Johnson and Ryan Harris were able to take all the wickets they got was that they had the grinders (Lyon, Siddle and Watson) putting in just as much work to earn the wickets by blocking up the runs and never letting the England batsmen get comfortable.

It will remain to be seen how Stokes will fit into this setup, his performance was definitely good but the real challenge will be playing his second and third series where the "debut player effect" won't apply and the opposition will have the chance to work out a plan for him. Only after his next couple of series will we know whether it's a good idea to give him any "next Botham" or "next Flintoff" forecasts, although falling out of a paddle boat would lock in the "next Flintoff" tag.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Is Tim Bresnan really good enough for Test Cricket? If not, which other all rounder could replace him?

Bresnan isn't a genuine all-rounder, even if the specialist batsmen all went out of their way to make him look like one. His spot in the team will need to be won on his bowling alone.

If England must have an all-rounder in the team instead of a sixth batsman, Stokes would be the top choice as the only England player who could possibly justify his place based on both forms, assuming that this was a genuine performance and not just the debut player effect at work again.

Also, should England follow Australia and pick a Left Arm quick?

As regards Left Arm quicks, Tymal Mills is mentioned as a 'prospect'....but he has only a handful of f/c wickets, bring back John Lever! (for those who remember him!)

Mitchell Johnson isn't in the side just because he's a left arm bowler, he's in the side because he's an extremely high quality bowler and a true champion who has managed to bounce back after a couple of seasons worth of bad form, injuries and mental health battles. If he bowled with the other hand he would still have been just as good against England and neither Harris or Siddle would have been dropped to make way for a left arm bowler, indeed the reserve travelling with the squad was the right arm bowler Nathan Coulter-Nile.

But sure, feel free to pick a left arm quick over a higher quality right arm quick for the next Ashes series. We could do with the free runs.

 

[Whistler40145]

Here's a challenge for those interested.

If you were an England selector, pick what you think is the best England XI, can include uncapped players.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

 

[Clip]

If you ever get the chance then a visit to the MCG for an ashes test is just amazing. Been to the ground before but the noise and athmosphere was astounding. Pity about the cricket like

 

[DownSouth]

I agree! I love Adelaide Oval for many reasons but being at the MCG for any event with a big crowd something else completely - and very sweet if it's an AFL match and your team beats one of the big Melbourne-based clubs like Collingwood or Essendon and silences their fans.

Could there possibly be a more fitting venue for the 2015 Cricket World Cup final? I don't think so, even if you ignore its heritage as the world's spiritual home of international cricket which hosted the first Test, the Centenary Test, the first ODI and the first ODI under lights.

Sadly it does echo badly when the attendance is low, something which somehow was engineered out with the new Adelaide Oval redevelopment.

 

[Arglwydd Golau]

Mitchell Johnson isn't in the side just because he's a left arm bowler, he's in the side because he's an extremely high quality bowler and a true champion who has managed to bounce back after a couple of seasons worth of bad form, injuries and mental health battles. If he bowled with the other hand he would still have been just as good against England and neither Harris or Siddle would have been dropped to make way for a left arm bowler, indeed the reserve travelling with the squad was the right arm bowler Nathan Coulter-Nile.

But sure, feel free to pick a left arm quick over a higher quality right arm quick for the next Ashes series. We could do with the free runs.

[/QUOTE]
I wasn't suggesting that Johnson was only in the side cos he is a left-arm bowler, and of course he has no need to bowl with his right hand so it is impossible to say that he would be just as good...I was responding to the question whether England should have one! They don't come along very often but certainly do add variety to the attack, Johnson is far and away the best at the moment now that he has shed his demons! If someone is good enough then pick him, but certainly not at the expense of a better right-arm bowler!

 

[Cletus]

Johnson's being rested for the 1st ODI, which is good news!

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Johnson's being rested for the 1st ODI, which is good news!

It appears that Broad will be rested for the first two ODI.

 

[DownSouth]

Plus Anderson and Pietersen were dropped from the original ODI squad announced before the tour began, which is a blow for Pietersen as his IPL team just announced they weren't retaining him.

The one plus for England is that some of their limited overs specialists have all been performing well on the same grounds where the ODIs will be contested as overseas players for the domestic T20 tournament over the last few weeks. Eoin Morgan and Chris Woakes have done a good job trying to hold things together for the hapless Sydney Thunder (Michael Hussey is their only other player of note), Luke Wright is in great form for the Melbourne Stars, plus Michael Lumb and Ravi Bopara have been very good for the Sydney Sixers.

The first game at the MCG is a little more significant than you might think - in February next year the World Cup kicks off with an Australia home game at the MCG against England.


So far as I can work out, Australia's lineup for the ODI series is likely to be as follows (with changes from the Test team in brackets)
Shane Watson
David Warner
Aaron Finch or Shaun Marsh (replacing Test specialist Chris Rogers)
Michael Clarke
Glenn Maxwell (replacing Test specialist Nathan Lyon)
George Bailey
Brad Haddin
James Faulkner (replacing Test specialist Peter Siddle)
Mitchell Johnson (replaced by James Pattinson for first game)
Clint McKay (replacing Ryan Harris)
Nathan Coulter-Nile or Xavier Doherty (depending on conditions)

If Shane Watson is completely fit and able to be depended on to bowl ten overs, dropping the last bowler on the list and playing both Finch and Marsh at the top (or bringing back Phil Hughes in the middle) could be a possibiltiy. If that were to happen, Australia would be batting down to number ten!

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

First ODI....Latest Score

England...269-7 (50 overs)
Ballance 79
Morgan 50
McKay 3-44

Australia...116-0 (20 overs)
Finch 63 not out
Warner 46 not out

 

[Johnuk123]

Australia 149-0 at half way so victory virtually assured.

We can't even put in a half decent performance in this first ODI.

Appalling mis-fielding, very poor bowling, are we going to manage to leave the place without a victory in any form of cricket, that looks quite possible.

Everything Cook does goes wrong the best thing he could do is get on a plane and go home. At least Trott did the decent thing when he cracked up even if it was far too late.

Cook just is so lethargic, he comes across as laid back which sometimes is good but sometimes you need to be proactive.In the past he has been a top batsman but at the moment he's a very poor captain.

The worst thing about this Australian cricket carnage is nobody would mind us being thrashed in every game if the opposition had been really really good. Make no mistake Australia aren't winning all these games because they're world beaters we are handing it to them on a plate.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Some months ago, I ventured to wonder what the main England strike attack would be like once both Broad and Anderson were omitted and an evaluation could be made about the next generation of new strike bowlers.

I appear to be receiving my answer.

 

[balne-wonderer]

There was a major chance today to bring a bit of 'fair play' and sportsmanship back to this tour but it was ruined by the umpires.

Warner, to his credit, was happy to walk for the Buttler catch and it's not his fault he was told to wait by the umpires. A farcical situation then with replay after replay showing that Buttler had got his gloves under the ball. However, and the cricket people here will know that cameras are deceiving and it made it look like the ball had bounced up into the gloves.

The umpire overruled the decision and any chance of the poor relations being slightly repaired were gone. Poor from the umpires. Walking should be walking

 

[Johnuk123]

There was a major chance today to bring a bit of 'fair play' and sportsmanship back to this tour but it was ruined by the umpires.

Warner, to his credit, was happy to walk for the Buttler catch and it's not his fault he was told to wait by the umpires. A farcical situation then with replay after replay showing that Buttler had got his gloves under the ball. However, and the cricket people here will know that cameras are deceiving and it made it look like the ball had bounced up into the gloves.

The umpire overruled the decision and any chance of the poor relations being slightly repaired were gone. Poor from the umpires. Walking should be walking

The umpires have been the worst for some time and got it very wrong today yet again.

We are so bad that even if the umpires were all English we'd still lose every game.

By how this one day series has started we look like we're heading for yet another whitewash.

Flower and Cook should resign as soon as possible. We need a rebuild from the top down because we're an appalling excuse for a team.

According to the radio today players are regularly late for meetings and Flower is doing nothing because he doesn't see it as a big deal.That shows in an nutshell how the players have got the upper hand and the management are incapable or frightened to do anything.

Sweep the lot away because sometimes it's the only answer.

 

[DownSouth]

I thought the third umpire got it right tonight, you could tell from the body language of Buttler that it was quite a speculative appeal for one he himself wasn't sure he'd taken, and there was too much uncertainty to give it out. Buttler is lucky that the umpires got it and he won't have to explain to the match referee why he claimed one he wasn't sure he'd taken cleanly, even with a guilty plea and apology that's worth a couple of matches on the bench.

Ben Stokes is also lucky that he's not explaining himself to the match referee over his attempt to tackle George Bailey, it was clearly an undisciplined outburst of anger in the dying overs of a lost match when injuring Bailey would have done nothing to affect the match result. If he had connected he would surely have been rubbed out for the remainder of the tour and the first part of England's next series.

All in, today was a pretty ugly display of sportsmanship from a touring team willing to go to any lengths to avoid a clean sweep of all three formats.

We are so bad that even if the umpires were all English we'd still lose every game.

Are you conceding that the sportsmanship of English umpires is as ugly as the classless behaviour of the team which was on display this evening?

 

[ainsworth74]

If people wish to discuss cricket and indeed sportsmanship within cricket they are more than welcome to do so. However the last few posting of this thread have been little more than personal attacks and as such have been deleted. If this continues then further action will be taken.