Cricket

[Leylandlad]

The chance of England batting the day out are less than nil.

Like Don King said of Frank Bruno's chances against Mike Tyson...."He's got 2 chances, slim and none and slim's out of town"

Let's face it, we're about knackered

2015 next series....time to regroup.

 

[flymo]

Well it is lunch and Stokes is on 117 not out with Bresnan on 7. 60 overs left and 172 needed from 4 wickets. Still some life left in the old dog yet and the Aussies are rattled. Going to be an interesting afternoon, for a while anyway...

EDIT: On second thoughts.... never mind - as you were..

 

[DownSouth]

Broad about to face Johnson, this over could be the series!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
And it is! VICTORY 3-0!

 

[Whistler40145]

Another big loss for England & we've lost The Ashes.

I wonder after three massive losses, have the whole ECB setup in Australia lost the plot and can no longer decide what's a good Team?

Are they using Trott's departure as a barrier to hide behind?

I personally haven't watched much of the series as the 1st Test defeat gave me the impression of what the whole series would be like.

 

[Butts]

Butts is not an avid cricket fan and this is my first posting on the thread, so be gentle if I say something stupid (perish the thought )

Am I to understand that prior to the start of the current Ashes Test Series England were overwhelming favourites to retain the trophy they won earlier in the year ?

Why have there been two "Ashes" in one year ? - is that normal ?

What went wrong (in simplistic terms please)

 

[ainsworth74]

Why have there been two "Ashes" in one year ? - is that normal ?

No it's a one off so that the Ashes in Australia is no longer held in the same year as the Cricket World Cup. After this we'll be back to the old pattern of there being about two years between series.

Well I'm very happy (and no I'm not an Aussie) with that as Stokes has his maiden hundred for England and showed a bit of his potential. Though I worry that we up in Durham will now not see much of him.

As for England? This his been on the cards for a while now and the win against Australia earlier in the year, whilst I wouldn't say it was a fluke, was certainly lucky and had more to do with Aussie incompetence than England's prowess.

I think a bit of rebuilding is in order at this point, I suspect Cook's days as captain are probably numbered and, it pains me to say, that Flower probably is also.

Still the last time we got hammered down under we went on to become number one in the world so I'm not panicing yet

 

[Butts]

No it's a one off so that the Ashes in Australia is no longer held in the same year as the Cricket World Cup. After this we'll be back to the old pattern of there being about two years between series.

Well I'm very happy (and no I'm not an Aussie) with that as Stokes has his maiden hundred for England and showed a bit of his potential. Though I worry that we up in Durham will now not see much of him.

As for England? This his been on the cards for a while now and the win against Australia earlier in the year, whilst I wouldn't say it was a fluke, was certainly lucky and had more to do with Aussie incompetence than England's prowess.

I think a bit of rebuilding is in order at this point, I suspect Cook's days as captain are probably numbered and, it pains me to say, that Flower probably is also.

Still the last time we got hammered down under we went on to become number one in the world so I'm not panicing yet

Thanks for that succinct explanation

 

[Whistler40145]

I also think Cook's days as Captain are numbered.

My next comment is why England can't have an English Coaching setup, only an Englishman will have loyalty to England, I have no wish it to sound racist.

 

[Butts]

I also think Cook's days as Captain are numbered.

My next comment is why England can't have an English Coaching setup, only an Englishman will have loyalty to England, I have no wish it to sound racist.

What about the players -half of them are South African are they not ?

 

[ainsworth74]

My next comment is why England can't have an English Coaching setup, only an Englishman will have loyalty to England, I have no wish it to sound racist.

In what way has Flower been disloyal?

 

[Whistler40145]

Flower hasn't been disloyal, the only problem is that he's never played his whole First Class career in English County Cricket, so doesn't see things like an English player would.

Also, Cook has never been a County Captain, so where did he get his knowledge from?

 

[ainsworth74]

I'll agree with you on Cook and his lack of experience but I don't see your other point. It's normally considered beneficial to have experience of playing cricket in other conditions as far as I'm aware so I still don't see what advantage there is to just only having experience of English first class cricket. If anything I'd say it would be a disadvantage.

Seriously you're going to have to spell it out for me because it really does sound a bit xenophobic to say that because Flower (or some other coach) hasn't spent their whole career in England they shouldn't be England coach.

 

[Johnuk123]

It really does sound a bit xenophobic to say that because Flower (or some other coach) hasn't spent their whole career in England they shouldn't be England coach.

Oh dear oh dear.

Perfectly reasonable question I would say, no need to accuse somebody of something that isn't true.

 

[ainsworth74]

I am simply questioning the relevance of where someone was born and experienced playing cricket to their ability to coach an international cricket team (i.e. one that spend a lot of time playing anywhere but England so experiene of overseas conditions could be seen to be an advantage). Maybe describing it as sounding (which is different from saying 'you are') xenophobic was a bit strong but my question remains. What is the relevance? What are the advantages of having an English coach? Please spell it out for me as I don't see it?

Flower has been incredibly successful until the last 18 months and I don't see how an English coach could have done any better...

 

[Butts]

Is it not supposed to be the "England & Wales" Cricket team ? - "greenbacks mob" seem to be forgotten

 

[Arglwydd Golau]

Flower hasn't been disloyal, the only problem is that he's never played his whole First Class career in English County Cricket, so doesn't see things like an English player would.

Also, Cook has never been a County Captain, so where did he get his knowledge from?

Replace Cook? Who with? County Cricket (and International Cricket) has changed so much in the last twenty or so years in that it will be impossible to find a county captain who has sufficient experience and good enough to play for England, many counties shuffle their captain around regularly. Strauss, Vaughn and Flintoff had limited experience captaining at county level, if any. ....and Flower, he has done brilliantly over the last few years since the Moores/Pietersen debacle..he may have made the wrong call this time in some areas but I can't think of anyone who might replace him (certainly not someone with a English pedigree that you seem to want).

 

[Johnuk123]

Botham or even Collingwood could replace Flower.

 

[Arglwydd Golau]

Botham or even Collingwood could replace Flower.

Oh, please not Botham..loved him as a player in a very different era but he would have no idea as a modern coach (and where is his coaching experience?). Some of his comments on Sky are laughable! Collingwood? He has been a fantastic team-man both for England and Durham, not sure whether he has any coaching qualifications, or indeed whether he is heading that way.

 

[DownSouth]

Is it not supposed to be the "England & Wales" Cricket team ?

...and South Africa, and New Zealand, and with the two previous wicketkeepers even Australia too!

 

[Johnuk123]

Oh, please not Botham..loved him as a player in a very different era but he would have no idea as a modern coach (and where is his coaching experience?). Some of his comments on Sky are laughable! Collingwood? He has been a fantastic team-man both for England and Durham, not sure whether he has any coaching qualifications, or indeed whether he is heading that way.

Collingwood was put forward by Michael Vaughan this morning.

 

[soil]

...and South Africa, and New Zealand, and with the two previous wicketkeepers even Australia too!

Actually:

#1: A Cook - Gloucester
#2: M Carberry - Croydon
#3: J Root - Sheffield
#4: K Pietersen - he's definitely South African
#5: I Bell - Coventry
#6: B Stokes - Christchurch, New Zealand, moved to Cumbria when he was 12
#7: M Prior - Johannesburg, moved to England aged 11
#8: T Bresnan - Pontefract
#9: S Broad - Nottingham
#10: G Swann - Northampton
#11: J Anderson - Burnley

KP is really the only one who's not the product of the English system.

 

[Arglwydd Golau]

Collingwood was put forward by Michael Vaughan this morning.

Oh really? I admire Collingwood, he's never been replaced in the England team, but whether or not he would - or should - be coach I don't know. I'd stick with Flower anyway.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Is it not supposed to be the "England & Wales" Cricket team ? - "Greenback's mob" seem to be forgotten

Would I be right in thinking that Simon Jones, the 6' 3" right-arm fast-medium bowler (born at Morriston in 1978) was the last Glamorgan player to play in full Test Matches for England ?

 

[flymo]

...and South Africa, and New Zealand, and with the two previous wicketkeepers even Australia too!

So British then.....

 

[Whistler40145]

I never said we shouldn't have a foreign coach , but wondered why an English or British born coach isn't ever considered.

 

[ainsworth74]

Well the coach before Flower was English and the coach before Fletcher was English so it's not as if they don't get a look in! If it wasn't for the need for a bit of stability after the Moores/Pieterson explosion I imagine the job would have been advertised as normal and the short-list would have had English coaches on it.

Honestly I just don't see this isssue that you do. When was the last time the coach changed and an English coach wasn't on the shortlist (exlcuding Flower for the reasons outlined)?

Are you sure you haven't got this thread confused with the Football one

 

[Arglwydd Golau]

Would I be right in thinking that Simon Jones, the 6' 3" right-arm fast-medium bowler (born at Morriston in 1978) was the last Glamorgan player to play in full Test Matches for England ?

Yes, last played for England in 4th test of 2005 Ashes, injured for Oval Test and replaced by Paul Collingwood.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I never said we shouldn't have a foreign coach , but wondered why an English or British born coach isn't ever considered.

Isn't Ashley Giles being lined up as Flower's successor anyway?

 

[ainsworth74]

Isn't Ashley Giles being lined up as Flower's successor anyway?

That's my understanding anyway and may god help us all if it comes to pass...

 

[Whistler40145]

Surely, not Ashley Giles. I would pick Graham Gooch ahead of him.

 

[Arglwydd Golau]

That's my understanding anyway and may god help us all if it comes to pass...

Well, wouldn't be my choice either but he has won a few plaudits. I'm not quite sure what he brings to the table, but then again, I wasn't sure either when he was an England player....at the time he was the best of a pretty poor bunch of spinners, I suppose, until Panesar and Swann came along.....but as I said previously, I hope that Andy Flower continues.