Crewe-Stoke-Derby : EMT's Poorest Relation ?

[Mutant Lemming]

I caught the 17:07 Crewe-Derby yesterday which was a single unit and not adequate for a rush hour service between a large railway junction and two cities. It was full from Crewe with people standing and more got on at Stoke than got off making it even fuller.
For a break I jumped off at Tutbury (noting it was 10 minutes late) and went for a quiet pint before continuing my journey. The following train (also 10 minutes late) was another crammed single unit with standing room only. I reckon this line has potential but inadequate single units operating an hourly service are hardly likely to encourage people to use it more (don't think it would be physically possible for more people to use it at peak times anyway).
Will this line ever see any worthwhile investment ? There is such potential especially for through services.

To make matters worse my break of journey meant I ended up catching the 20:01 St.Pancras service from Derby.... but that's another topic.

 

[tbtc]

I agree that it does get a poor deal, but then a lot of the non-London EMT services have shorter trains than they should.

At least the hourly four coach LM 350 from Crewe to Stoke has helped capacity on the busiest section of this line - apart from that I'm not aware of any future improvements (the "tail end" of the LM 150 cascade sees EMT get four additional 156s, but these are to free up 158s to lenghen the Liverpool - Nottingham service, I don't think this will help passengers on the Stoke line)

 

[SteamPower]

I've always thought this, it's a shame sourcing extra carriages seems to be easier said than done

 

[Yew]

I've always thought this, it's a shame sourcing extra carriages seems to be easier said than done

Irish mk3's and locos for the Nottingham -Liverpool services maybe?

 

[rail-britain]

I caught the 17:07 Crewe-Derby yesterday which was a single unit

I agree, capacity on this route is an issue
As a single unit, would you know what type it was?
Typically it appears to be a Class 158 or Class 170
I used it once, as a Class 158 and was full from Derby to Crewe (due to previous service failing)

 

[sprinterguy]

I agree, capacity on this route is an issue
As a single unit, would you know what type it was?
Typically it appears to be a Class 158 or Class 170
I used it once, as a Class 158 and was full from Derby to Crewe (due to previous service failing)

East Midlands Trains don't operate any 170s. There haven't been any 170s on the likes of Crewe-Derby since Central Trains days. I recently learnt that there are a handful of 158 worked services on the line though.

By a "single unit" I presume that the OP is referring to a class 153, which is the usual traction on the line. A single carriage, which I agree is inadequate for the route. It is unfortunate that EMT have insufficient units available to run this service as a two-car train at all times, or even most of the time. Hopefully one day EMT will gain additional 153s, 156s or 158s that can be utilised on this and other similar services in a far off, future cascade.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Since EMT took over, I have only ever seen a 153 on this service (thought this is obviously beyond their control). Back in CT days, I can remember it being both a 156 and 170. Back then of course, it used to run through to Nottingham / Skegness too.

 

[Mojo]

I travelled on a 158 on this route on a Saturday last year, however I understand that this was owing to races taking place. The unit was very busy!

 

[MidnightFlyer]

I travelled on a 158 on this route on a Saturday last year, however I understand that this was owing to races taking place. The unit was very busy!

Aye, must be dreadful on racedays - and even worse in summer for Alton Towers!

 

[323235]

The 1740 Derby - Crewe is usually a 158 on weekdays or has been when I've been on it or seen it in the last year. I've also seen 156s on the service in recent times but it seems to be very rare.

 

[HSTEd]

Was this the train that used to run Crewe-Skegness back in the good ol' days?
We could always hope for those Southern 171s to be displaced by electrification.....

 

[Hydro]

I'm sure I've read somewhere that NR/DfT/EMT or whomever envisage that this service should be upgraded to a 2-car train at a minimum. I use this service regularly and it's ridiculously inadequate. It's often that people are stopped from boarding at Derby due to overcrowding.

 

[tbtc]

Was this the train that used to run Crewe-Skegness back in the good ol' days?
We could always hope for those Southern 171s to be displaced by electrification.....

Manchester Airport - Skegg, back in Central Trains days. Now thats four different services.

But, as we know, London Midland got plenty three coach 170s for their services whilst EMT got the scraps.

 

[trentside]

The 1740 Derby - Crewe is usually a 158 on weekdays or has been when I've been on it or seen it in the last year. I've also seen 156s on the service in recent times but it seems to be very rare.

I'm presuming this works the 1907 back from Crewe? I caught this earlier in the year and found the 158 to be almost deserted leaving Crewe. Certainly not a true reflection of the line from what I'm reading here.

At one point I seem to remember certain trains from Crewe running through to Lincoln, via Derby and Nottingham.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I have the NR live departures gadget on my PC, set to Crewe.
Black means a good day, red bad.
The most regular red line is "xx07 Derby Cancelled". Seems like almost every day.
So even the lowly single-car service often goes missing.
Seems like this service is bottom of the priority heap when EMT have stock problems.
I think they lost the plot when it was truncated at Derby, much better to go through to Nottingham at least and give it a purpose.
When it last ran to Manchester Airport it mostly carried fresh air.

 

[Crossover]

As others have said, the majority of services are formed of a single car 153 and I have heard stories of how bad it can get - a friend told me they were leaving people behind one morning a few weeks back as I think cricket was on and the train was packed. I think I heard something about some people complaining about it not being Voyager run or something else InterCity style...:roll:

There are however 158s that work the line, namely, I believe, in the evening and saw one only a few weeks ago at Stoke heading to Derby so not for sure it does happen. Just often enough I don't think

 

[tbtc]

I think they lost the plot when it was truncated at Derby, much better to go through to Nottingham at least and give it a purpose

...but then if there was a spare unit to run through to Nottingham then that'd be better used to increase the capacity on the Derby - Crewe section

(if that makes sense)

 

[HSTEd]

Without some huge order of new multiple units from somewhere (preferably 100mph capable Class 172s with proper seating and end gangways, even first class compartments maybe) to displace 158s from Liverpool-Norwich, a reinstated Manchester Airport-Skegness through route and half a dozen other Sprinter workings I can't see the situation improving significantly.

 

[WillPS]

They found space/units to extend the Matlock line to Nottingham.

 

[sprinterguy]

Without some huge order of new multiple units from somewhere (preferably 100mph capable Class 172s with proper seating and end gangways, even first class compartments maybe) to displace 158s from Liverpool-Norwich, a reinstated Manchester Airport-Skegness through route and half a dozen other Sprinter workings I can't see the situation improving significantly.

The Scottish Central Belt electrification is the active electrification project at the moment that is most likely to bring about benefits to EMT by potentially providing them additional Sprinter units, be they 156s or 158s, in a couple of years time.

Beyond that, more electrification projects will need to be announced to facilitate additional unit cascades, or brand new stock ordered. I've envisaged quite a clever scheme that involves electrifying the Uckfield and Marshlink lines that would be of great benefit to EMTs' local fleet. Now all I need to do is become the Minister for Transport....

 

[Mutant Lemming]

In the interim maybe operating the service as a Stoke-Derby shuttle could at least improve the frequency on that section and maybe divert one of the Liverpool-Birmingham services to operate via Stoke providing extra capacity on the Crewe-Stoke section as well as through service from Stoke to Liverpool.

 

[ashworth]

During the 1970's and I believe well into the 1980's this service was an hourly Crew-Stoke-Derby-Nottingham-Lincoln route. I used it regularly to travel from Newark to college in Derby.

I think it would be good to see this restored providing Lincoln with connections to Birmingham and the SW at Derby and Nottingham a link to the WCML and North Wales.at Crews. Where the stock would come from is another question but it may also relieve pressure on the busy Nottm-Liverpool route by providing an alternative route from Nottingham to the NW.

 

[trentside]

During the 1970's and I believe well into the 1980's this service was an hourly Crew-Stoke-Derby-Nottingham-Lincoln route. I used it regularly to travel from Newark to college in Derby.

I think it would be good to see this restored providing Lincoln with connections to Birmingham and the SW at Derby and Nottingham a link to the WCML and North Wales.at Crews. Where the stock would come from is another question but it may also relieve pressure on the busy Nottm-Liverpool route by providing an alternative route from Nottingham to the NW.

I'm sure that the Lincoln - Derby - Crewe service survived into the days of Central Trains, but I could be wrong. In an ideal world, I'd like to think this could be reinstated, replacing the Matlock branch service between Derby and Nottingham. At the same time, the Ivanhoe line could be added onto the Robin Hood Line service, and could be worked from Mansfield Woodhouse to Leicester.

 

[OuterDistant]

Ah, our local service - since I've left home, I no longer live near enough to a station to justify using it and it's a damn good job I don't have to. A 153 is nowhere near enough capacity when the students are in. Even two years ago, fights were breaking out at Uttoxeter on race day because there wasn't enough capacity.

I think that the completion of the parallel A50 a few years back has led various operators to think they can run it down.

 

[thewolf]

It regularly arrives at Stoke packed to the rafters with plenty waiting to get on in both directions. Quite often results in a two or three minute wait while everyone squeezes in.

When I saw it one day a couple of weeks back, it came in from Crewe rammed with probably a couple of dozen waiting to get on including three pushchairs. Took a good 5 minutes for the platform staff/guard/driver to orchestrate everyone in order to provide room for the pushchairs

 

[tbtc]

They found space/units to extend the Matlock line to Nottingham.

The units for the Matlock service include one which used to be part of the Crewe service (when it ran through to Nottingham).

However, I have to accept that running Matlock - Nottingham and Crewe - Derby is more efficient use of paths/ stock than running Matlock - Derby and Crewe - Nottingham.

Matlock - Derby would be too short for one unit to run on a clockface service (which it really needs to be, to slot between the four EMT/XC services an hour north of Derby).

Plus Matlock - Nottingham means no reversal needed at Derby (and, IIRC, there are no northern bays for the Matlock service to terminate at?), which allows the Derby - Crewe service to remain operationally independent (so not pick up delays).

 

[12CSVT]

And this is the same TOC which carts fresh air every hour between Kettering and Corby.

Perhaps a more efficient use of resources would be to run Crewe - Derby - Matlock using 156s and pairs of 153s and leave Derby - Nottingham to XC.

 

[martinsh]

Got on the 1640 Derby - Crewe at Peartree yesterday. There were 5 of us getting on (!), and one bloke with a bike got left behind. More people got left behind at Tutbury. Cleared out a bit at Uttoxeter, and I managed to get a seat at Longton. Loads got off at Stoke, so not too bad from there to Crewe. An ontime departure from Peartree got turned into 12 late at Crewe - simply due to extended dwell times at stations squeezing people on and off (though I did hear an announcement that the delay was due to "animals on the line in the tutbury area !)

I was also on the 1007 Crewe - Derby and that was pretty full.

I've known the line crowded before, but never as bad as this. As mentioned already, the 1740 Derby - Crewe is usually a 158 (it comes off a Liverpool - Nottingham service) and when Uttoxeter races are on the usually do strengthen it with either 158s or 2 x 153 - still gets jam packed though.

 

[SteamPower]

And this is the same TOC which carts fresh air every hour between Kettering and Corby.

This complaint would be better aimed at the DfT since it was them that included Corby as part of the franchise.

 

[Crossover]

Got on the 1640 Derby - Crewe at Peartree yesterday. There were 5 of us getting on (!), and one bloke with a bike got left behind.

Getting left behind at Peartree is quite unfortunate...