Crewe - May 2019 Timetable Changes

[sufian123]

What eye-watering prices?
If you are starting from Crewe or Stafford, fares to Liverpool and Birmingham are actually cheaper on VT than they are on LM (who set the Any Permitted fares).
It's simply not true that LNW are always "cheap" and VT is always "eye-watering".
They both know how to play the market.

Flexible tickets are set by govt. with this years 3.1% increase. Only advance tickets are train companies sets.

 

[Puffing Devil]

Only advance tickets are train companies sets.

No - there are also TOC specific walk up fares

 

[sufian123]

No - there are also TOC specific walk up fares

Fairs. I didn’t know that

 

[peter166]

What eye-watering prices?
If you are starting from Crewe or Stafford, fares to Liverpool and Birmingham are actually cheaper on VT than they are on LM (who set the Any Permitted fares).
It's simply not true that LNW are always "cheap" and VT is always "eye-watering".
They both know how to play the market.

Indeed. It is often possible to book a Virgin Advance ticket from Liverpool to Stafford for only £2.95 with a Railcard.

 

[BluePenguin]

What eye-watering prices?
If you are starting from Crewe or Stafford, fares to Liverpool and Birmingham are actually cheaper on VT than they are on LM (who set the Any Permitted fares).
It's simply not true that LNW are always "cheap" and VT is always "eye-watering".
They both know how to play the market.

But I am not travelling from or living in Stafford, Crewe or Birmingham only changing there. Buying a Virgin advance from these places may be cheaper for those who do live in or travel only from these places but what is saved in money is lost in time for passengers who do not.

I am talking about eye watering long distance journey prices from London and further afield involving Virgin Trains.

The joined-up services are not primarily there for through journeys - it's more to eliminate turnbacks at New Street, where platform capacity is often limited, due to the service frequencies being much higher nowadays than what it was built in mind for.

I acknowledge and understand that these services are not meant for through journeys. However, seeing as they are run very closely together, why not time them to make perfectly reasonable connections possible at Crewe/Stafford without running?

I'm not complaining about them being regional services nor aruging stops should be removed from them, only re-timed to save 35 minutes for the few of us travelling on a budget.

 

[Class 170101]

The joined-up services are not primarily there for through journeys - it's more to eliminate turnbacks at New Street, where platform capacity is often limited, due to the service frequencies being much higher nowadays than what it was built in mind for.

New Street was never built as a terminus station so its about time more trains started running through rather than terminating here. How performance issues will be managed will be interesting though.

 

[markymark2000]

Do members think that Crewe needs a complete rebuild? Like they did with Reading, another 500 million spent on it, with the platforms made all through ones.

I think it does but I don't think it needs more through platforms really. It just needs sorting as the current situation is so underused. Just look at the platform plan for May. Platform 10 is used for 5 minutes every hour, Platform 8 is used for 7 minutes every 2 hours. The WMT starters spend 30 minutes sat on the platforms, Platform 3 is used for 6 minutes each hour. Platform 2, 9 and 12 are spare and Platform 1 is mostly unused as the Northern services go into the sidings.

You have 2 trains per hour crossing the entire WCML from Shrewsbury towards Manchester. The whole thing just need more services or shrinking somehow. Though I know this won't be popular, unused platforms are doing no one any good and it means more area for staff to keep secure and maintain.

 

[MalaiseForever]

I think it does but I don't think it needs more through platforms really. It just needs sorting as the current situation is so underused. Just look at the platform plan for May. Platform 10 is used for 5 minutes every hour, Platform 8 is used for 7 minutes every 2 hours. The WMT starters spend 30 minutes sat on the platforms, Platform 3 is used for 6 minutes each hour. Platform 2, 9 and 12 are spare and Platform 1 is mostly unused as the Northern services go into the sidings.

You have 2 trains per hour crossing the entire WCML from Shrewsbury towards Manchester. The whole thing just need more services or shrinking somehow. Though I know this won't be popular, unused platforms are doing no one any good and it means more area for staff to keep secure and maintain.

I am not sure it requires more staff to keep the area "secure", I am at Crewe multiple times every week and if the platform is not in use there are no staff on it.

 

[markymark2000]

I am not sure it requires more staff to keep the area "secure", I am at Crewe multiple times every week and if the platform is not in use there are no staff on it.

No no. Not more staff but more areas for them to check when on the security check thing. If someone is at the end of platform 12 up to no good, it will take a staff member about 5 minutes to get to them as there will be no staff on the platform or close by necessarily.

 

[MalaiseForever]

No no. Not more staff but more areas for them to check when on the security check thing. If someone is at the end of platform 12 up to no good, it will take a staff member about 5 minutes to get to them as there will be no staff on the platform or close by necessarily.

That is a fair comment I suppose, though I am not sure the costs of that outweighs the benefits of additional platforms.

 

[markymark2000]

The point was remodel the station with less platforms that way there is less area for the staff to cover and make more use of the platforms. You could sort Crewe in 7 platforms. Probably less. There is no need for so many platforms when they are so underutilised.

 

[The Planner]

7 with no wiggle room, you might lose a couple of the bays when HS2 comes along but it won't lose any more than that.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I think it does but I don't think it needs more through platforms really. It just needs sorting as the current situation is so underused. Just look at the platform plan for May. Platform 10 is used for 5 minutes every hour, Platform 8 is used for 7 minutes every 2 hours. The WMT starters spend 30 minutes sat on the platforms, Platform 3 is used for 6 minutes each hour. Platform 2, 9 and 12 are spare and Platform 1 is mostly unused as the Northern services go into the sidings.

There's often congestion and queueing at Crewe for the present through platforms.
There's a cluster around xx19-30 which easily screws up P5 if disrupted, ditto the South Wales on P6/11 when trains are out of sequence (it happens).
It only needs the Scotland-Birmingham-Euston to be 10-15 down (not unusual) for P5 to crumble.
P12 could be used more but usually isn't (unpopular with no facilities and a bridge to use).
P1 is often blocked with an NT turner.
It's very rare to get an unchecked run in to the station (may be the approach control).

 

[markymark2000]

7 with no wiggle room, you might lose a couple of the bays when HS2 comes along but it won't lose any more than that.

Well, 2, 3 and 4 can be linked (with the EMT going infront of the WMT service and using 'front train only'. 9 and 12 can go (as they are unused). Platform 7 and 8 can be merged into 1 as well with the Shrewsbury local going infront and using 'front train only'. Those are the 5 platforms which can go. Through platforms bar 12 are unaffected.

There's often congestion and queueing at Crewe for the present through platforms.
There's a cluster around xx19-30 which easily screws up P5 if disrupted, ditto the South Wales on P6/11 when trains are out of sequence (it happens).
It only needs the Scotland-Birmingham-Euston to be 10-15 down (not unusual) for P5 to crumble.
P12 could be used more but usually isn't (unpopular with no facilities and a bridge to use).
P1 is often blocked with an NT turner.
It's very rare to get an unchecked run in to the station (may be the approach control).

In fairness, P11 can be used. IT isn't use much really so it won't be too much for it to be used a bit more. P1 isn't normally blocked as most of the time the Northern terminator goes into the sidings or at least they did.

 

[craigybagel]

There are several trains stabled in various platforms during the night. Platform 12 sees use every morning with trains that can't go anywhere else. You only have to see the fact that there are no rusty tracks in any of the Platforms to see that they're all used, and that shrinking the station would be a pointless reduction in capacity - and the costs of the disruption that could cause would easily outweigh the costs involved in keeping them open.

 

[The Planner]

Well, 2, 3 and 4 can be linked (with the EMT going infront of the WMT service and using 'front train only'. 9 and 12 can go (as they are unused). Platform 7 and 8 can be merged into 1 as well with the Shrewsbury local going infront and using 'front train only'. Those are the 5 platforms which can go. Through platforms bar 12 are unaffected.


In fairness, P11 can be used. IT isn't use much really so it won't be too much for it to be used a bit more. P1 isn't normally blocked as most of the time the Northern terminator goes into the sidings or at least they did.

Are you basing this on todays usage or what may be required in 10, 20, 30 years time? Things change.

 

[Deafdoggie]

Platform 12 is used for charters, especially steam, and movements into/out of the yard and LNWR site and Heritage Centre. If they all blocked a through platform that would create issues, or be the end of steam at Crewe.

Platform 9 is used when Euston shut, as the Virgin-Chester/North Wales can fit in it. Voyager won't fit in any other bay.

What is really needed is a north facing bay for the Manchester, so Platform 1 can have more use as a through platform, but it isn't so desperate that it is worth the money.

As pointed out earlier, there are no rusty tracks, they do all get used.

 

[frodshamfella]

Indeed. It is often possible to book a Virgin Advance ticket from Liverpool to Stafford for only £2.95 with a Railcard.

I had to go from Acton Bridge Station to Stafford last Saturday just a day trip. Cheapest fare was around £20 It's expensive for about a 30 min journey.

 

[R G NOW.]

No no. Not more staff but more areas for them to check when on the security check thing. If someone is at the end of platform 12 up to no good, it will take a staff member about 5 minutes to get to them as there will be no staff on the platform or close by necessarily.

Sorry I have not been able to answer posts lately, due to my mother. Anyway sounds like you need more staff? so a recruitment drive is needed and a replan of services to make the station more viable. Reading seems to bustle and trains are in all the platforms most of the time. I think my own station could do with a revamp, remove platform 1 and change the other two into four shorter ones with mid platform signals.

Looks like from the first post that only 3 platforms are going to be spare.

 

[R G NOW.]

Looking at Opentraintimes, looks like Leicester needs a revamp as well, it had trains backed up outside the station waiting for platforms.

 

[kieron]

I think it does but I don't think it needs more through platforms really. It just needs sorting as the current situation is so underused. Just look at the platform plan for May. Platform 10 is used for 5 minutes every hour, Platform 8 is used for 7 minutes every 2 hours. The WMT starters spend 30 minutes sat on the platforms, Platform 3 is used for 6 minutes each hour. Platform 2, 9 and 12 are spare and Platform 1 is mostly unused as the Northern services go into the sidings.

That's just a summary of the plan. From checking a random date in May, every platform is expected to be used a few times a day.

In any case, Crewe is one of the very few stations where Virgin operate more trains than any other operator. As their timekeeping isn't that good, I'd expect to see trains using different platforms than the ones in the plan in a typical day. I'd certainly expect a few of the trains booked into 5 or 6 to end up in 1, 11 or 12, if nothing else.