Creating New Fares

[Hadders]

A TOC is normally able to create a fare if they don't set the Any Permitted fare. There are many examples of this, for example London to Birmingham via High Wycombe or Peterborough to London GTR only.

How does this work in London where the fare is set by ATOC? Take something like Norwood Junction to Tottenham Hale, the fare is set by ATOC. Would London Overground be able to introduce a 'via Whitechapel' fare? How would they do this - would they need to ask ATOC to do it or would there be no way a TOC could even make a request.

 

[Haywain]

A TOC is normally able to create a fare if they don't set the Any Permitted fare. There are many examples of this, for example London to Birmingham via High Wycombe or Peterborough to London GTR only.

How does this work in London where the fare is set by ATOC? Take something like Norwood Junction to Tottenham Hale, the fare is set by ATOC. Would London Overground be able to introduce a 'via Whitechapel' fare? How would they do this - would they need to ask ATOC to do it or would there be no way a TOC could even make a request.

I think that London is a special case where all RDG (formerly ATOC) takes responsibility for fare setting and so would prevent other fares being created.

 

[zwk500]

Intra-London travel point-to-point fares should just be aligned with the zonal charging, if they aren't already.

 

[JonathanH]

Would London Overground be able to introduce a 'via Whitechapel' fare?

Possibly a bad example as, given they are a TfL operation, I'd imagine they would only want to have new fares on Oyster / Contactless.

'Traditional' fares are used for such a small proportion of fares in London that it probably isn't worth adding new ones.

Indeed, as a case in point, Norwood Junction to Tottenham Hale (NR) has only one 'paper' fare routeing - that being +Any Permitted - yet five levels of Oyster / Contactless fares, the cheapest being via Stratford and one of Canada Water, Shadwell or Whitechapel.

 

[Watershed]

Possibly a bad example as, given they are a TfL operation, I'd imagine they would only want to have new fares on Oyster / Contactless.

'Traditional' fares are used for such a small proportion of fares in London that it probably isn't worth adding new ones.

Indeed, as a case in point, Norwood Junction to Tottenham Hale (NR) has only one 'paper' fare routeing - that being +Any Permitted - yet five levels of Oyster / Contactless fares, the cheapest being via Stratford and one of Canada Water, Shadwell or Whitechapel.

To be fair, there are flows where there are Any Permitted (or similar) fares set by ATOC and cheaper routed fares set by London Overground. Richmond to Stratford, for instance. I don't have the historic fares data in front of me to confirm when those routed fares were introduced, though.

 

[Andrew1395]

Aren’t all “paper ticket” fares in London within the six zones of the travelcard area a special case because of the arrangements that were required to get the TOCs to agree to Oyster PAYG to be introduced on all National Rail services within the TfL area?

 

[MikeWh]

Aren’t all “paper ticket” fares in London within the six zones of the travelcard area a special case because of the arrangements that were required to get the TOCs to agree to Oyster PAYG to be introduced on all National Rail services within the TfL area?

Yes, although the reason was to prevent accusations of collusion between TOCs.