crb advice

[jc1]

Hi 1st post.
Could anyone give me advice if a drink drive conviction I had 25 years ago
will show up on crb check although it was spent many years ago?
Also if it does show up will a TOC look at it that it was a silly mistake I made
when I was a kid or will they discount any application over it?
Thanks in advance for any help.

 

[Vicpaul]

I believe it's up to 10 years.

 

[yorkie]

If it's an enhanced check it will show everything, regardless of whether it's "spent" or not. Do you know if it's a standard check or an enhanced check?

 

[jc1]

I think its a standard check but if they see this will they take into account
how long ago it was or will they reject my application?

 

[Zoe]

All convictions/cautions held on the Police National Computer will show up on both a standard and enhanced check even if they are spent. An enhanced check will also show any other relevant information disclosed at the discretion of the chief constable.

 

[Greenback]

Could anyone give me advice if a drink drive conviction I had 25 years ago
will show up on crb check although it was spent many years ago?

It may do. What role have you applied for? I always advise people to be open and honest about any conviction, regardless of how long ago it was.

Also if it does show up will a TOC look at it that it was a silly mistake I made
when I was a kid or will they discount any application over it?
Thanks in advance for any help.

I don't think it's possible to answer this, as only the person making the decision will be able to. What I will say is it could well depend on the nature of the role, whether you disclosed the offence at interview, and possibly other factors relating to your application or appointment.

In my organisation (non rail), my advice to an appointing manager would be to ignore such a conviction on the basis of time having elapsed, but it would be their decision, and as I say they may be influenced by a medical, references and so on.

 

[jc1]

I have applied for a driver position.I havent mentioned this in my application
because it said on the form do I have any unspent convictions which I havent.

 

[Class_317]

unspent convictions... the clue lies in the question. I would look up the definition of unspent conviction... i believe your offence to be spent (unless there was a custodial sentence, this would mean that the offence never gets spent). this would mean that employers cannot use it against you after offering you the job. All the information you seek is a Google search away.

and the level of disclosure is Basic... not standard or enhanced. Basic only shows unspent convictions.

 

[Zoe]

unless there was a custodial sentence, this would mean that the offence never gets spent).

Only if the sentence is longer than 2.5 years.

 

[Class_317]

Only if the sentence is longer than 2.5 years.

Right you are... i just couldn't be bothered to look up the length of time lol

But yes... it is law. The rehabilitation of offenders act. another way that the government messes up peoples lives... i thought CRBs were to catch out serious criminals not to penalize people that made one mistake years ago.

 

[jc1]

unspent convictions... the clue lies in the question. I would look up the definition of unspent conviction... i believe your offence to be spent (unless there was a custodial sentence, this would mean that the offence never gets spent). this would mean that employers cannot use it against you after offering you the job. All the information you seek is a Google search away.

and the level of disclosure is Basic... not standard or enhanced. Basic only shows unspent convictions.

Thanks Class 317
Do you mean that they only do Basic disclosures?
If they use standard or enhanced and they see this conviction couldnt they
reject my application and just say it was for another reason?

 

[185]

< Removed my erronious post >

Standard
Spent and unspent convictions, cautions, reprimands, final warnings


Enhanced
As above - plus any additional information held locally by police forces that’s reasonably considered relevant to the post applied for

I think where the law differs, under employment law, there is no requirement to disclose spent conviction unless an employer has a job exempt from ordinary checks (ie administration of justice, working with children) etc and they must state this in the job advert.

 

[Class_317]

to be fairly frank there is no reason for a spent conviction to be taken into account regardless of time frame. spent is just that. you are considered rehabilitated. i can't comment on individual circumstances but since they only ask about unspent convictions i would only think it fair that any spent convictions are ignored.

the law is clear on that. i fail to see why there is any reason to think otherwise.

 

[greatkingrat]

Most jobs only require a basic disclosure which only shows unspent convictions. Employers are only legally allowed to request a standard or enhanced check for certain jobs considered high-risk, mainly those involving children or vulnerable adults. I don't think there are any jobs on the railway that would fall into this category.

 

[Greenback]

For the benefit of those who may not know, CRB has now been renamed as DBS, following a government inspired reorganisation/merger.

Changes were also made last year to the definitions of when a barred list check can be m
made.

I agree with greatkingrat that railway jobs would not normally be eligible for barred list checks.

 

[A-driver]

If you are going for a driving job I doubt very much you will be crb checked. I know they say you will be on the application firms but I have been a driver with 2 TOCs and neither has crb'd me.

Saying tat there may be TOCs who will.

 

[Class_317]

If you are going for a driving job I doubt very much you will be crb checked. I know they say you will be on the application firms but I have been a driver with 2 TOCs and neither has crb'd me.

Saying that there may be TOCs who will.

Greater Anglia most certainly do CRB/DBS drivers. In the last letter I got from them regarding invite to manager's interview they stated the course start date along with "subject to" medical, satisfactory references and CRB.

Without wishing to cause controversy I do agree that drivers do not need to be CRBed since they do not handle cash not issue penalty fares, nor are they tasked with looking after children (children do not and should not travel alone anyway).

So there are no real reasons for these checks other than to discriminate on people with criminal records even if there is no risk of re-offending.

Hopefully the DBS system will fix this current trend of employers using unnecessary CRB checks on people just because they can.

 

[Greenback]

Without wishing to cause controversy I do agree that drivers do not need to be CRBed since they do not handle cash not issue penalty fares, nor are they tasked with looking after children (children do not and should not travel alone anyway).

So there are no real reasons for these checks other than to discriminate on people with criminal records even if there is no risk of re-offending.

Hopefully the DCA system will fix this current trend of employers using unnecessary CRB checks on people just because they can.

I am against such checks myself. I understand that an organisation which undertakes checks that they are not entitled to do can be fined. I don't know of any instances where this has happened, though.

 

[Class_317]

I am against such checks myself. I understand that an organisation which undertakes checks that they are not entitled to do can be fined. I don't know of any instances where this has happened, though.

I suppose in order for the system to work there would need to be intervention at government level. Can't see that happening myself.

Anyway, back to the original posters concerns: I think there is no need to stress. The only reason you would be required to discuss a conviction with your employer is if it is unspent. As your conviction was over 5-10 years you have no legal obligation to declare the offence nor should a prospective employer take it into account.

Hope this myth can be put to rest.

Here British Airways CRB requirements for Flight/Cabin Crew (just as guidance as to what a BASIC check is):

CLICK HERE FOR "RELEVANT" FACTS

 

[A-driver]

Greater Anglia most certainly do CRB/DBS drivers. In the last letter I got from them regarding invite to manager's interview they stated the course start date along with "subject to" medical, satisfactory references and CRB.

Did they actually do the crb though? Or just say they would?

All TOCs as far as I know (certainly the 2 I have worked for) have said on recruitment papers that the offer is subject to medical, reference and crb but neither actually carried out the crb.

 

[NHG66]

Did they actually do the crb though? Or just say they would?

All TOCs as far as I know (certainly the 2 I have worked for) have said on recruitment papers that the offer is subject to medical, reference and crb but neither actually carried out the crb.

FGW ask for you to do a basic check through Disclosure Scotland and to send the results to them. If this is First group policy rather than the Great Western franchise part then it will apply to all of Firsts' operations I would of thought.

 

[A-driver]

FGW ask for you to do a basic check through Disclosure Scotland and to send the results to them. If this is First group policy rather than the Great Western franchise part then it will apply to all of Firsts' operations I would of thought.

As far as I know FCC don't do a crb-I certainly wasn't crb checked by them when I moved to an FCC depot.

 

[leonardos84]

TOCs only ask for a basic crb....i just got a job with southwest trains, and they asking for a basic one...they only check for the last 5-10yrs mate...nothing to worry about....

 

[jc1]

TOCs only ask for a basic crb....i just got a job with southwest trains, and they asking for a basic one...they only check for the last 5-10yrs mate...nothing to worry about....

Thanks Leonardos and everyone else who have answered that has put my mind at rest.Its just that I have passed all the psychometrics and the structered interview but failed the managers interview and am now waiting 6 months before I can take the managers interview again.I didnt want to go through it all again only to be rejected because of the crb check.
Does anyone know how common it is to fail the managers interview?
I thought I did quite well but poorly in the structured interview which I passed.

 

[Beveridges]

Does anyone know how common it is to fail the managers interview?

Very common
Depends on number of applicants and number of vacancies really but if the number of vacancies is very low then expect around 80% to fail it

 

[jc1]

Is the crb situation still the same?I understand there has been new legislation is this correct and when does it take effect?

 

[Monty]

FGW ask for you to do a basic check through Disclosure Scotland and to send the results to them. If this is First group policy rather than the Great Western franchise part then it will apply to all of Firsts' operations I would of thought.

The same applies for South West Trains (and I would also assume it applies to East Midlands Trains as well), you have to do all the leg work and you show the company the results.

 

[Danny1234]

Can train guards have tattoos on show by any chance

 

[CatfordCat]

I can't speak specifically for train driving jobs, but some background...

The timescale for an offence to become 'spent' depends on the sentence. Something involving a prison sentence of more than 2 1/2 years is never spent, a caution is spent immediately, and it's a sliding scale between the two. More here.

Other than people who are formally disqualified from working with children and / or vulnerable people, it is not the role of CRB / DBS to say to an employer "yes you may employ / no you may not employ this person" - it is their role to provide information and let the employer make a decision.

The jobs that are exempt from the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act (i.e. where you have to declare spent convictions) are defined in law / guidance - an employer can't just decide to exempt a position because they feel like it.

If the application asks you to declare unspent convictions, and this is a spent conviction, you don't have to declare it.

If the application says you must declare spent convictions, then it's going to put you in a more difficult position if you don't declare something that later shows up on a disclosure than if you're upfront about it.

Employers are not supposed (with a possible very few exceptions - although I think you can even join the police now if you've got a minor conviction or two) to reject just because of a past conviction - but they may want to discuss it with you, and to be confident that you're now a reformed character / it was a one-off / youthful indiscretion.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

Is the crb situation still the same?I understand there has been new legislation is this correct and when does it take effect?

The former Criminal Records Bureau (CRB) has now been replaced by the Disclosure and Barring Service (DBS). The transfer of records and procedures is ongoing - the old CRB forms are still being used.

There have been 2 radical changes, one, following the Soham murders, increased the scope of a disclosure, the second, following the Government's review of the CRB scheme.

Rather than type an attempt at an answer to your question, can I refer you to another thread in which I did cover much of this ground? Here: CRB checks (now Disclosure and Barring Service)

I'm unable to agree with some of the earlier posts in this thread, specifically those by Class_317

to be fairly frank there is no reason for a spent conviction to be taken into account regardless of time frame. spent is just that. you are considered rehabilitated.
. . . . i would only think it fair that any spent convictions are ignored.

the law is clear on that. i fail to see why there is any reason to think otherwise.

There are reasons, and Chief Constable considering a conviction for a (car) driving offence while studying a request in respect of an applicant for a (train) driving position might, just might, consider that the 2 have some relevance to each other; but please note the filtering procedures which will be applied when considering a request.