Cranleigh railway reopening?

[jonny72]

Over the years there have been various rumours and newspaper stories about the Cranleigh line reopening and there is even an excellent website dedicated to it! Does anyone know if this is ever likely to happen??
The trackbed has a protection order on it and the old line is kept tidy for walkers and cyclists. The congestion around Guildford with traffic travelling from the Bramley direction is terrible in the mornings!! Any body have any comments. Thanks

 

[yorksrob]

Over the years there have been various rumours and newspaper stories about the Cranleigh line reopening and there is even an excellent website dedicated to it! Does anyone know if this is ever likely to happen??
The trackbed has a protection order on it and the old line is kept tidy for walkers and cyclists. The congestion around Guildford with traffic travelling from the Bramley direction is terrible in the mornings!! Any body have any comments. Thanks

I'd love to see it. One of the bonuses is that you already have services terminating at Guildford so you could develop an extension.

 

[Hove Heretic]

Over the years there have been various rumours and newspaper stories about the Cranleigh line reopening and there is even an excellent website dedicated to it! Does anyone know if this is ever likely to happen??
The trackbed has a protection order on it and the old line is kept tidy for walkers and cyclists. The congestion around Guildford with traffic travelling from the Bramley direction is terrible in the mornings!! Any body have any comments. Thanks

I signed a now closed epetition some months ago calling for this line to be re-opened, ticked the box for more information and since an acknowledgment email, not a dickie-bird. Nor has the proposal flagged up on any of my regular trawls of local newspapers. Cranleigh has to be about the most significant population centre south of London served only by country lanes!!

 

[jonny72]

It almost seems like someone in the council or relevant authorities is not really interested in the railway reopening! Cranleigh has grown hugely since the 60's and the congestion around Guildford/Cranleigh during the rush hour is terrible. I think the railway's cause is not helped by the cost of rebuilding and the current mess our economy is in. I think there should be a proper lobby started to get things moving. I may even volunteer myself!!

 

[Hove Heretic]

When it comes to political bodies such as councils, 'do nothing' often seems to be the default position, and where it isn't, you'd often wish it was!

With a combined population just shy of 20,000, Cranleigh, Bramley and Wonersh probably don't justify the expenditure required to re-open the line based on immediate catchment, so any case for re-opening would have to be made on the basis of overall benefit to the area's transport infrastructure by proving a need on economic grounds. Social considerations back in the 1960's would probably have been enough to save at least the portion between Cranleigh and Guildford, had these been grounds within the criteria of the Beeching Report, but I fear these alone won't be enough to justify re-opening.

If the line were to successfully serve the catchment between Horsham and Guildford in order to reduce congestion, then Cranleigh's comparative inaccessability by road remains an issue. Commuters would still need to access a new station as their car/rail interchange, plus local buses (such as they are) would require re-routing to serve the line. With the extra strain which this would place on the local roads (such as they are !!), it would defeat many of the objectives of re-opening. That remains a problem right down to Slinfold, and if you're going that far, then why not bite the bullet and re-open the whole line?

I agree, roads in the area are wholly inadequate, and if any scheme for re-opening can address the issues above, then it stands a good chance of being taken seriously. Unlike many other proposals, services to Cranleigh would slot quite neatly into timetables and would actually make operations easier at Guildford.

 

[bangor-toad]

Some years ago ATOC considered this line as one of the candidates for development. Read all about it here (.pdf report)

I vaguely remember reading an alternative report that claimed the BCR was higher if the line was opened all the way through to allow a Guildford - Horsham route rather than having a branch to Cranleigh. I can't find any reference to that though.

Jason

 

[Hove Heretic]

I've been looking through timetables of bus routes currently serving Cranleigh, and aside from Arriva service 63 (link below), it doesn't make for encouraging reading:

http://www.arrivabus.co.uk/uploadedfiles/Services/South_East/SEGF53_020912_180712.pdf

All other services are financially supported by local authorities with two, routes 24/25 'subject to review' (in Brighton, that translates as 'withdrawn') this month. Both are not too frequent village hoppers with no evening or Sunday service:

http://www.surreycc.gov.uk/?a=356519
http://www.surreycc.gov.uk/?a=356553

There is a website with details of the old line, but even this appears to have had no updates since the flurry of interest with the 'Reconnecting Communities' report of 2009:

http://cranleighrailway.info/

During the latter part of it's lifetime, the line suffered from poor onward connections with services at both extremities. Quite what market (other than commuters) it could now serve if re-instated, I'm not too sure. As a 'Cranleigh Turnback', the northern end could work from the timetabling point of view (if the issues I mentioned in my last post could be addressed), and if you're talking 'whole line', there's no capacity issue at Horsham of which I'm aware (though they do like to keep arrivals from the Three Bridges line coming in on Plat.1 and crossing the through tracks south of the station to exit Plat.4 - Dorking line trains come and go from plat.1). As there's to be re-signalling on the Arun Valley Line and improvements at Horsham Station, I don't know if this pattern will remain set in stone.

Other factors limiting it's usefulness are the single track formation and the fact it's of little or no use as a diversionary route. In this regard, the Horsham-Dorking line is sadly underutilised to the point where I'm actually surprised that it's still with us.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see many lines re-opened, but as things stand, I honestly can't see a viable case for the Horsham-Guildford route. Current proposals for new housing (other than private builds) in Cranleigh ammount to 39 dwellings. Hardly earth-shattering. Peak hour commuting aside, I'm afraid just don't see a requirement for the capacity.

 

[WeyArunRailway]

Funny this should come up as this is precisely what my group is working on, albeit we're working on a plan involving starting the reinstatement at the Christ's Hospital end. We have a few obstacles to deal with: there are three houses (a single 1970s building) on the trackbed at Slinfold, half a mile west we've got a corrugated steel cover-and-backfill tunnel in place of a former over-bridge which is insufficient in both height and width to run trains through, the bridges over the A281 at both Rudgwick and Bramley have been completely demolished (and I think the embankments cut back somewhat, at least at Bramley), the Stocklund Square development at Cranleigh (and the car park behind) stands in the way of the rebuilt station, and some infill has to be dug out of cuttings at Itchingfield and Baynards. Baynards Station would have to be acquired and some of the Bramley Business Centre buildings would have to be demolished. There's also a house on the trackbed at Peasmarsh, right by the junction with the Portsmouth main line. None of this is at all insurmountable, but I fear that the political will isn't there to help us. If you look for "Wey & Arun Railway" on Facebook, you'll find our embryonic web presence. A website should be up later this year once we've got all the content together. The rebuilt line will essentially be a volunteer-run heritage line, but public service will be part of our ethos and we'd either run some services with DMUs ourselves or lease paths once enough line has been reopened to a Train Operating Company. I'd be interested to see the evidence of the aforementioned 39-home development proposed: where precisely is this planned to be built?

 

[Hove Heretic]

I'd be interested to see the evidence of the aforementioned 39-home development proposed: where precisely is this planned to be built?

Glad to oblige:

http://www.waverley.gov.uk/info/200140/housing_development-new_homes/1464/new_homes_in_cranleigh

One thing which did strike me was the possibility of a beneficial symbiotic relationship with the W&ACT mob at Loxwood. In the longer term, roads in the area, already groaning under peak traffic flows, would become a major issue with an influx of visitors to the canal and if you're successful, the railway.

I'm not too sure how your proposals for TOC paths would pan out, unless you're planning to spark up (at least a portion of) the line, and also, whilst getting paths between Christ's Hospital and Horsham should be possible, if expensive, I can't conceive of NR or TOCs countenancing heritage operations between Peamarsh Jnc and Guildford. I notice you don't mention either Surrey County or Guildford Borough Councils. With the road bottleneck at Shalford seemingly an insurmountable obstacle, with no local agreement whatever on a solution, operation of the northern end of the railway to anywhere short of Guildford would surely create more problems on the roads, and therefore diminish the prospect of support from local authorities.

Sorry if this all sounds horrible negative, but the flip side of course is that, were your group to come up with workable solutions to these and other isues, then there'd likely be fairly wholehearted support from on high. As far as I recall, the reasons why a local scheme to save the line failed back in the 1960's were opposition from BR and an unwillingness on the part of the Surrey authorities to make any financial commitment in the absence of much interest from their couterparts in West Sussex.

 

[WeyArunRailway]

To answer your questions, I haven't mentioned those councils because we're starting in West Sussex, not Surrey. Our eventual plan is to put in a station at Peasmarsh, for which local commuters either (a) living in the area or (b) working in the adjacent huge office blocks have been campaigning for a long time. There is also a park-and-ride facility at the site, just off the A3100 (a mile or so west of Shalford): every effort would be made to encourage people to go into Guildford (or come to us from Guildford) using this service. Detailed strategy has not yet been discussed. At present, the canal lot have said they will not support us. Electrification - no. However, with Southern operating services through Christ's Hospital, FGW through Shalford and SWT past Peasmarsh, and all three companies being in possession of DMUs (FGW use them on the North Downs Line, SWT 158s are frequently seen at Woking and Southern has its 171s working rural routes in East Sussex), we don't see this as a huge problem. Electrification would be a huge additional cost and H&S burden.

 

[Hove Heretic]

I confess to being a bit out of date regarding Peamarsh Jnc, having had visions of trying to get NR/SWT to agree to a 'Smallbrook Jnc MkII' on the Portsmouth line. Glad to hear it's closer to a 'Martins Heron' type situation. Of course, if a station gets built close by the junction itself, there's a good chance of a Worget Jnc type signalling solution, assuming your efforts bear fruit. This seems to be an area where forward thinking has led to some admirably common sense decisions in recent years.

True enough, Turbostars exist on ex-SR metals, though they're scarcely abundant, as anyone jockeying for a rush-hour seat at Crowborough will tell you. Simple answer - electrify (and re-double!) the Wealden route, et violà - you have your Turbostars - assuming the resurgent branch lines in the south west don't get first dibs. From what I read elsewhere on this forum, I suspect you'd have better luck obtaining 'Pacers' - unless sparking up the valleys lines releases stock suitable for cascade.

Damn shame the W&ACT don't feel able to offer support. I suspect that previous attempts to re-open the H&GD over the years could have made them rather more cautious than they might otherwise be.

All other considerations aside, electrification would in any event be tricky - will 3rd rail wither and die in favour of OHLE? I'm uncertain what odds the bookies are offering, but I'd put no money on either outcome for the present.

I look forward to the arrival of your website, being one of those who have issues with and won't use Facebook.

 

[WeyArunRailway]

I am not familiar with those individual cases, but I hope that the improved public transport situation will enable me to visit Swanage soon. I don't foresee enormous difficulties reinstating either junction (Peasmarsh or Christ's Hospital), at least not relative to the general challenges posed by rail reinstatement.

One other thought I've had has been getting Morgan to do a heritage-style railcar, and I did email them about it, but have had no response as yet.

Pacers - I understand these are not popular with passengers. Have never encountered one myself. As it happens, my colleague here is attempting to acquire one but I'm not going to go into any detail on that just yet... but 158s and particularly FGW 166s are in rather more plentiful supply round here.