CR1 up the Lea Valley?

[leytongabriel]

If CR2 is seriously delayed or even cancelled is there any possibility of some CR1 trains coming up the Lea Valley via Stratford? Off-peak Shenfields seemed to be carrying a lot of air before the Covid situation hit us, at least beyond Romford. Could two of them per hour replace the half-hourly Stratford - Meridian Water shuttles as a modest start without impacting Lea Valley capacity? Ideally a Tfl service to Cheshunt would relieve the fares anomaly that has some of the poorest communities in London paying higher fares to protect Greater Anglia revenue. We've got major station works to go with regeneration and house building but seemingly without clear plans to improve the service or include inner surburban services in the Overground network like the other ex-GE lines in NE London.

 

[JonathanH]

is there any possibility of some CR1 trains coming up the Lea Valley via Stratford

No.

It isn't possible to get the trains from the Crossrail portals to the Lea Valley route and even if it was, it isn't much use only sending off peak trains to that route.

Off-peak Shenfields seemed to be carrying a lot of air before the Covid situation hit us, at least beyond Romford.

I think that could be dealt with by terminating trains at Chadwell Heath or Gidea Park, not that it seems likely.

 

[cle]

The frequency is needed further in, and I can see a lot more development at stations, plus less uniform commuting times/patterns in future.

Consider it a tube line, 12tph+ is run on many lines which run out to the outer zones, like Uxbridge, Upminster or Cockfosters.

 

[MarkyT]

If you really wanted to peel some off to an alternative destination after Stratford, I'd suggest the only vaguely plausible option might be Barking Riverside, although the flat junctions of Forest Gate and Woodgrange Park would have to be negotiated. I'm skeptical that anything more frequent than 6tph is absolutely neccessary for the psychological 'turn up and' go attraction outside the immediate core. Higher frequency is only really necessary for peak capacity reasons, so short turnbacks or alternative destinations might be compelling. For Barking Riverside developers, an Elizabeth Line service would be more attractive than LO, and a good LT&S-Lizzie interchange at Barking would be thus be afforded.

 

[Bald Rick]

No.

This is a commonly asked question.

Not only is it not currently possible to get from the portal at Stratford to the Lea Valley Line, it is not physically possible, at least not without doing one or more of:

* Removing several trains each hour, alol day every day, from the Greater Anglia timetable for the GEML
* building a new underground tunnelled junction with the Elizabeth line somewhere around Bow, surfacing somewhere near Temple Mills or Lea Bridge
* demolishing large tracts of resindential and commercial property around Stratford, possibly including parts of Westfield.

I think we can agree none of those things are likely to happen.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 23 Jan 2021 ==

Ideally a Tfl service to Cheshunt would relieve the fares anomaly that has some of the poorest communities in London paying higher fares to protect Greater Anglia revenue

You don’t need to have different services to correct fares ‘anomalies’

We've got major station works to go with regeneration and house building but seemingly without clear plans to improve the service or include inner surburban services in the Overground network like the other ex-GE lines in NE London.

That’s because the WAML has been at full capacity for a decade. The answer is Crossrail 2, or, more cheaply, changing the service spec on the line to provide a better service to the inner suburban area, at the cost of loss of connectivity / frequency / increased journey times for outer suburban services. There is no other way.

 

[Class 170101]

That’s because the WAML has been at full capacity for a decade. The answer is Crossrail 2, or, more cheaply, changing the service spec on the line to provide a better service to the inner suburban area, at the cost of loss of connectivity / frequency / increased journey times for outer suburban services. There is no other way.

You would never get away with extending journey times to Stansted Airport. Manchester Airports Group want shorter journey times and longer operating hours between London and Stansted.

 

[cle]

Shenfield is the perfect place to end it. There is a lot of intra-Essex traffic from Romford eastwards, to provide some off peak and counter-flow - plus it is a junction/regional stop, so makes the perfect S-Bahn terminus!

The WAML is a tough one to improve. The inner service is not that frequent, paths through Clapton and Bethnal Green are tough. Many folks have better tube options up the Seven Sisters side, and the Ponders End side is a bit desolate still, even with a lot planned.

In terms of planned improvements - I think a third per hour, fastest Cambridge service is an aspiration. There are/were works to be done on the Hertford East branch to increase services. Aside from that, Meridian Water and those works may well be it. It was commonly said that four tracking the mainline would only happen via CR2. Now that is dead, perhaps it'll be revisited? Or the third track will be extended some more / given Liverpool Street shuttle services. Stratford has really helped on the local frequency front.

 

[Bald Rick]

In terms of planned improvements - I think a third per hour, fastest Cambridge service is an aspiration. There are/were works to be done on the Hertford East branch to increase services.

Both dead as that squirrel.

It was commonly said that four tracking the mainline would only happen via CR2. Now that is dead, perhaps it'll be revisited?

No, because it is of very little benefit without Crossrail 2. You can’t run more trains as there is nowhere for them to go. All you can do is speed faster trains, and it only saves about 2 minutes. Not really worth spending £3bn on.

 

[cle]

Ahh well, there you have it then. If those improvements are dead, there isn't really any need for 4 tracks.