Covid restrictions to end on 19th July

[Domh245]

Even when the queue outside means the queue inside is shorter, and you can move around the aisles much quicker?

I'm not convinced that the time saved by being able to move through the shop freer offsets the time spent queuing. The solution to wanting a quiet shop is to go at a quiet time, not create a system that arbitrarily reduces capacity to the benefit of the lucky few (much like compulsory reservations!). Not always an option for everyone, but with the advent of WFH it makes it far easier to go at a relatively quiet time if you want to! When I was still going grocery shopping weekly, I was usually either in not long after opening on Saturday, or occasionally mid-morning midweek (when lectures allowed) - no queues outside, and no queues inside either, it was bliss!

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

Are you at serious risk of severe illness?

I am at higher than average risk yes, but not quite sufficient to meet the ‘priority vaccination’ programme, as is my wife.

If you are that worried you can always stay locked up indoors while the rest of us get on with our lives.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 5 Jul 2021 ==

The way you worded that, i.e. rather dismissively, kindof illustrates the dont-give-a-s***-for-others-concerns attitude that I’ve seen in numerous places this evening.

The other rather important point is that by releasing sooner, the sooner we get the inevitable exit-wave over and done with. Delay the removal of restrictions past September, you're putting the peak of the exit wave right on the start of flu season, and that's not a great move.

This is a fair point.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

OK. I got the impression that it was no longer required when going into a pub?

Correct no names and contact numbers required.

For clarity whats being retained is if you test positive for C19 Test, track and trace will contact you to tell you to self isolate and chase down other contacts so that element is as is now. I suspect people will stop getting tested routinely though especially when your double dosed.

 

[Darandio]

The way you worded that, i.e. rather dismissively, kindof illustrates the dont-give-a-s***-for-others-concerns attitude that I’ve seen in numerous places this evening.

The same attitude has been around for the last 16 months but it's been a two way street. Those calling for restrictions over this time are still calling for them to continue right now and at no point have they given a s*** about how this has affected others.

 

[notlob.divad]

What are you basing this on?

My personal historic experience of yobbish behaviour, where anything that doesn't conform to the mobs way of thinking is a target for villification and abuse.
Combined with:

Are you at serious risk of severe illness?

you are that worried you can always stay locked up indoors while the rest of us get on with our lives.

&

Why though? Given that those who are still getting second doses are at minimal risk to begin with (and, having received one dose of vaccine are already at lower risk than they would have been..)

If people in a supposedly civilised forum are already singling out someone who says they may not feel 100% comfortable with this, I can only imagine what the uncivilised in British society will decide to do with people who decide to continue with their own protection.

FYI bengley. its none of your business what the posters personal health situation is. We rightly didn't make people prove their medical exemption from mask wearing as it is a violation of privacy. Neither should you be demanding personal details for evidence of someone's reasoning to not feel comfortable and potentially wanting to continue with their own personal protections

 

[Ianno87]

Why not just choose to go shopping at less busy times? No queue, *and* quieter inside.

I do a mix of both. But the queue outside just makes it faster and more pleasant inside (and has a side effect of encouraging people to spread their shopping hours to the benefit of everybody)

Plus helps the shop workers out. When I was a shelfstacker, the shelves getting ransacked on a Saturday morning because everyone just *had* to turn up then, but then be dead after about 5pm until 10pm.

 

[Darandio]

and potentially wanting to continue with their own personal protections

Anyone can continue to do that, it's their choice. The issue is these people wanting to continue to impose the same restrictions on others.

 

[bengley]

My personal historic experience of yobbish behaviour, where anything that doesn't conform to the mobs way of thinking is a target for villification and abuse.
Combined with:



&


If people in a supposedly civilised forum are already singling out someone who says they may not feel 100% comfortable with this, I can only imagine what the uncivilised in British society will decide to do with people who decide to continue with their own protection.

FYI bengley. its none of your business what the posters personal health situation is. We rightly didn't make people prove their medical exemption from mask wearing as it is a violation of privacy. Neither should you be demanding personal details for evidence of someone's reasoning to not feel comfortable and potentially wanting to continue with their own personal protections

I wasn't asking for proof. Stop getting so defensive.

It was a curious question. If the answer was 'no' I would have attempted to reassure the poster that they had no reason to be worried. As that isn't the case, I won't.

 

[kristiang85]

Even when the queue outside means the queue inside is shorter, and you can move around the aisles much quicker?

I generually avoid busy times anyway so this has never been a problem, but psychologically queuing in the shop at least feels like you're in the middle of achieving something (paying for items), rather than stood outside wasting time.

 

[Failed Unit]

This sort of stuff really, really gets my goat. If this were my union I would be seriously coming out for this blatant example of discrimination. Taken from the BBC News live feed:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-57718061

I wonder if it even occurred to him that the guy might have an exception, or hey might have even been a member of his union? This kind of extreme virtue signalling is not only pathetic, but is in my mind a form of discrimination.

Sadly on a similar note, I noticed this morning that a prominent member of my own union has been cuddling up to the lunatic fringe that is iSAGE. If this is the case, I'm really going to have to consider cancelling me subscription after 34 years. The unions are rapidly becoming worse at scaremongering that the bloody media.

I must admit. Any establishment that expects me to wear a mask after July 19th won’t get my business. If buses continue to expect it I wont use them. At some point the subsidy will be reduced as they expect services to be commercially viable. if they force people to wear masks, less people will use the bus. The service will be cut and their member will be out of a job. Unions wanting mask wearing to continue must be careful what they wish for - ie the death of public transport.

 

[philosopher]

I generually avoid busy times anyway so this has never been a problem, but psychologically queuing in the shop at least feels like you're in the middle of achieving something (paying for items), rather than stood outside wasting time.

Queues outside shops are a very visible sign that something is not normal!

 

[Failed Unit]

Queues outside shops are a very visible sign that something is not normal!

I have found the queues outside actually made things worse inside at the popular places, like the fruit and veg.

 

[TravelDream]

I must admit. Any establishment that expects me to wear a mask after July 19th won’t get my business. If buses continue to expect it I wont use them. At some point the subsidy will be reduced as they expect services to be commercially viable. if they force people to wear masks, less people will use the bus. The service will be cut and their member will be out of a job. Unions wanting mask wearing to continue must be careful what they wish for - ie the death of public transport.

This isn't necessarily true and you know it.

There are not an insignificant number of people who will be more likely to take a bus if others are wearing masks.

No, I am not among them and I don't think we should all wear masks 100% of the time for eternity. But you are blindly looking from just your perspective.


However, I have a feeling very few places will require them when they are not required to. Airlines are probably most like to keep mask rules in place. Some like Ryanair might have no choice given Irish law is different to British law.

 

[notlob.divad]

Anyone can continue to do that, it's their choice. The issue is these people wanting to continue to impose the same restrictions on others.

I agree its their choice, my point is that there will be no protection for the people who want to make that choice, from the bullies who will inevitably make themselves known.

 

[Ianno87]

This isn't necessarily true and you know it.

There are not an insignificant number of people who will be more likely to take a bus if others are wearing masks.

No, I am not among them and I don't think we should all wear masks 100% of the time for eternity. But you are blindly looking from just your perspective.

This is the point I am repeatedly trying to make on this thread. Masks are still "reassuring" (rightly or wrongly) to a large section of the population - far, far beyond the most nervous/pro-restriction/lockdown-ers, or people wearing them because they are "doing the right thing"

That's why they (masks) are not going to evaporate on 19th July, no matter how much some posters on this thread want them to.

(And once again for the record, I personally couldn't give much of a stuff what happens either way, but I'll carry on voluntarily wearing a mask for the time being as it personally doesn't bother me. That doesn't mean I'm pro-mask nervous wreck, I'm just pro-going-with-the-flow-and-not-making-fuss like 80% of the population, who tend to not be the most vocal on social media)

 

[bengley]

I agree its their choice, my point is that there will be no protection for the people who want to make that choice, from the bullies who will inevitably make themselves known.

Wearing an FFP3 mask will offer good protection to those who wish to continue wearing masks.

 

[TravelDream]

I have found the queues outside actually made things worse inside at the popular places, like the fruit and veg.

A lot of that is bad queue management. At the start of the pandemic, my local Tesco was letting people inside in batches of 15-20 guiding them down their one-way system. It made no sense whatsoever. Nobody would go in for ages, then suddenly you'd have trolley jams in the fruit and veg aisles as people struggled to get what they needed having been forced all to go the one way down the first aisle. It was actually the opposite of enforced social distancing - enforced crowding.

They soon stopped doing that after numerous complaints.

 

[Bikeman78]

Indeed but nothing wrong for businesses and transport operators keeping those additional screens in place for the short term.

Also each business will have to decide how it wants to operate office occupation.

Cardiff Bus had screens long before Covid, mainly to offer protection for the driver from the less desirable passengers. As for supermarkets, yes keep the screens for now.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 5 Jul 2021 ==

I agree its their choice, my point is that there will be no protection for the people who want to make that choice, from the bullies who will inevitably make themselves known.

I've been on a few yob filled trains to and from Hertford East where I was almost the only person wearing a mask. Never had any bother. I also used to think that Hertford was okay but clearly I was wrong. There are dozens of class 317 internal fittings strewn on the track around Hertford and Ware. Far more than anywhere else on their network.

 

[Failed Unit]

This isn't necessarily true and you know it.

There are not an insignificant number of people who will be more likely to take a bus if others are wearing masks.

No, I am not among them and I don't think we should all wear masks 100% of the time for eternity. But you are blindly looking from just your perspective.


However, I have a feeling very few places will require them when they are not required to. Airlines are probably most like to keep mask rules in place. Some like Ryanair might have no choice given Irish law is different to British law.

To a degree it is true. I am exempt from wearing a mask. I don’t use public transport at the moment as I don’t need the confrontation. I will stay off as long as this confrontation exists. Others find it reassuring and will stop using it if mask are removed. Either way less people will use public transport and it will be more difficult to keep the service viable.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 5 Jul 2021 ==

I agree its their choice, my point is that there will be no protection for the people who want to make that choice, from the bullies who will inevitably make themselves known.

That works both ways. I am forced off public transport by bullies because I can’t wear a mask.

 

[johncrossley]

I must admit. Any establishment that expects me to wear a mask after July 19th won’t get my business. If buses continue to expect it I wont use them. At some point the subsidy will be reduced as they expect services to be commercially viable. if they force people to wear masks, less people will use the bus. The service will be cut and their member will be out of a job. Unions wanting mask wearing to continue must be careful what they wish for - ie the death of public transport.

Buses are expected to be loss-making for the foreseeable future, hence the Government's recent plan for bus partnerships. Bus companies won't get funding unless they join a partnership.

 

[Ianno87]

To a degree it is true. I am exempt from wearing a mask. I don’t use public transport at the moment as I don’t need the confrontation. I will stay off as long as this confrontation exists. Others find it reassuring and will stop using it if mask are removed. Either way less people will use public transport and it will be more difficult to keep the service viable.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 5 Jul 2021 ==

Nobody is pretending that masks don't put off some people - of course they do. I just think the number of such people is generally over-exagerrated, and the predominant reason for less people using public transport is the lack of reasons to travel in the first place (e.g. working at home, reduced leisure events, etc)

 

[greyman42]

If buses continue to expect it I wont use them.

Just claim an exemption.

 

[notlob.divad]

Wearing an FFP3 mask will offer good protection to those who wish to continue wearing masks.

It will, but what will protect them from the yobs and bullies who chastise them, invade their personal space, and assault them for protecting their own health.

 

[Failed Unit]

Nobody is pretending that masks don't put off some people - of course they do. I just think the number of such people is generally over-exagerrated, and the predominant reason for less people using public transport is the lack of reasons to travel in the first place (e.g. working at home, reduced leisure events, etc)

It is a pity we can’t have best of both worlds. Top deck mask free, bottom deck mask only etc. (Yes no good on a single deck bus)

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 5 Jul 2021 ==

Just claim an exemption.

Doesn’t stop the holier than thou mob. I have one in my wallet. “Anyone can print that off”

 

[Ianno87]

It is a pity we can’t have best of both worlds. Top deck mask free, bottom deck mask only etc. (Yes no good on a single deck bus)

You can have that on an open top bus!

 

[notlob.divad]

That works both ways. I am forced off public transport by bullies because I can’t wear a mask.

I have never seen anyone bullied off a bus for not wearing a mask. Some dirty looks, maybe some tutting and a twitter post, yes. But I haven't seen a mask wearer spit in the face of someone who refuses to use one. I have seen the opposite and suspect I will see it again.

 

[Failed Unit]

It will, but what will protect them from the yobs and bullies who chastise them, invade their personal space, and assault them for protecting their own health.

The same ones that bully us with medical reasons not to wear masks?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 5 Jul 2021 ==

I have never seen anyone bullied off a bus for not wearing a mask. Some dirty looks, maybe some tutting and a twitter post, yes. But I haven't seen a mask wearer spit in the face of someone who refuses to use one. I have seen the opposite and suspect I will see it again.

I have personal experience of not wearing a mask assaults.

 

[Wychwood93]

Nobody is pretending that masks don't put off some people - of course they do. I just think the number of such people is generally over-exagerrated, and the predominant reason for less people using public transport is the lack of reasons to travel in the first place (e.g. working at home, reduced leisure events, etc)

Not so much the masks as the Govt messaging that public transport is a good place to catch Covid. We do not drive and have continued to use the bus (such few services as our village gets) for shopping etc. A small few have been fellow travellers throughout the pandemic - numbers are rising. The regular drivers would not be bothered if you had forgotten a mask and neither would they question a 'newcomer' who didn't wear one.

 

[AJW12]

Woah - there really are some really strong worded opinions on the mask topic. Can we stray away from using words like chastise, yob and bully? Ultimately both sides of the argument have perfectly valid reasons. It just feels unkind - one way or another most of us have suffered in some way since this all began.

I’m personally for the removal of the mandated masks in all settings. But, like the majority of people, I have absolutely no problem with anyone who chooses to wear one - as a stereotypical londoner I barely make eye contact on public transport as it is, let alone roll my eyes or worse at someone for wearing a mask!

I personally feel like we’ve just lost some perspective around the masks. Masks were introduced as a reasonable (yes, reasonable) measure earlier in the pandemic as they can prevent you from spreading the virus if you have it, and can help stem the spread a tad. However, I think two things seem to have been forgotten (at least by people I speak to):
1) wearing a mask (a fabric, cheap surgical one etc.) does not provide much, if any, protection to you. If you want to protect yourself (which is understandable) the guidance needs to shift to recommending those people purchase a FFP2 or 3 mask which will do that and make them feel more confident.
2) the key one for me - masks reduce your spreading of it, but only if you actually have the virus! I’m quite surprised by the amount of people who still don’t get this. You can’t spread a virus you don’t have in the first place! As someone who’s had the delta variant a couple of months ago, all evidence points to an infinitesimal chance of me having it again (for a while at least). I’m also having to do testing for my work. So I shouldn’t need a mask at all - because I can’t pass the virus on. I just feel strongly we have to move away from this “but you can still catch it” “but there’s still a chance” etc. Our vaccines are fantastic and more effective than we thought possible. If you have had both vaccines you’re as protected as you ever will be.

My final point is that in my opinion, removing mandatory masks also helps to reduce some of the fear that has been instilled in a lot of people really badly. We’re treating everyone as a potential virus risk, and covid isn’t going anywhere (might go down again but not for good). It will mutate again. But I’m nervous for my grandparents and how nervous they are to still go about their daily lives even with two jabs - I lost one grandparent in March and I don’t want them living in fear in the last few years of their lives.

 

[Bikeman78]

Not so much the masks as the Govt messaging that public transport is a good place to catch Covid.

Yes that was a spectacular own goal. Public transport will pick up more once the roads grind to a halt. The Euston Road was at a complete standstill the other day so it's already happening in some places. The down side is that some places, e.g. Cardiff, have converted bus lanes into cycle lanes so now the buses will be stuck in the traffic jams too.