Court summons

[Becky_kay]

Hi,

back in august I just broke up with my partner and was feeling very upset so

took a train from liverpool to St. Helens to go see my parents,
I bought a return ticket.
Whilst I was there I was upset so decided I would stay the night and travel home next day.

Next day I took the train home and nobody came to check tickets on the train,
I got to the barriers, to the side was a small stand where people could buy tickets.

I went straight through the gates with my return ticket and went to hand it to the officer checking instead,
as I was passing it over I noticed the return date was for the previous day.

I went over and explained to him I'd bought the return not realizing it was a same day one as I travel quite a bit
and usually a return is open for the month, apologised and said I'd have to buy a ticket.
The officer got very nasty and started saying he wanted my details as this was fare evasion.

I was quite shocked and tried to explain I work in compliance myself and would never do that,
it was quite clearly a mistake just by looking at the dates on my ticket,
I hadn't handed in a random old ticket or wasn't like I didn't have one.
plus I was extremely upset over my breakup and didn't even cross my mind,
it was the return part to a the journey and I hadnt relized it had ran out,
I hadn't checked it as hadn't had any reason to as far as I thought!

He was so rude and I stupidly said
"I'm probably on more money then you why would I try and avoid paying 3.90??"
More because I was so offended and confused why he was speaking to me like dirt and accusing me of this.

It would make no sense to pay more to buy a return knowing it would be of date if I was going to fare evade?!
Plus I was the one who pointed the mistake out to him and said I had to buy one?!
But anyway he took my details, confirmed them and off I went.

I got a letter in December askin me to give my version of events so I sent it in.

Now I have received a court summons accusing me of abusive language and attempt to fare Avade?!

He claims after givin my details I walked away and said "go **** yourself" which I honestly never!

Why would I give in my details, let him confirm them and then swear at him??
That would be stupid! I'm so upset.

I haven't purposely done anything wrong,
I already suffer with depression and anxiety and don't know what to do here.

I'm a single mum and if I get a criminal record I could lose my job as I'm a civil servant workin in compliance.
.I actually work to prevent fraud not go out there and commit it!!!

Could anyone give me advice on what to do please??

Surely they can see the CCTV and see I approach him and point it out and hear I never swore??
Wouldn't he have to provide proof of this??

 

[cuccir]

What legislation are you being prosecuted under? This should be detailed in the court summons. It makes a big difference as to the possible consequences, depending on what this is. This will also affect the proper advice for what you should do.

If you are being prosecuted under the railway Byelaws, then intention is not important: these are 'strict liability offences', so not having a valid ticket for your journey will mean that prosecution would suceed. If prosecution is successful then you will receive a fine but NOT a criminal record.

The more serious offences that you may be being prosecuted under are the 'Regulations of the Railways Act' (for fare evasion) or the Public Order Act (for offensive behaviour). These require more evidence for prosecution (for RORA, it requires proof of intent to evade a fare). If prosecution is successful then you will receive a higher fine and a criminal record.

Train companies are often willing to settle out of court, but the accusation of offensive language might mitigate their willingness to do this. If the prosecution is under either of the latter two laws, then they will be less willing - you will probably want a lawyer in this case.

Again though - if you let us know more about the laws under which you are being prosecuted then we can provide better advice.

 

[Becky_kay]

Thanks for the reply

I'm bein prosecuted for "abusive and offensive language contary to section 19 and schedule 20 of the transport act 2000 as preserved by clause 4 (a) & (b) of the railways act 2005 and BYELAW no.6(1) of the national railway byelaws.

Then the other is "S.5(3)(a) of the regulation of railways act 1889 as amended by section 84 (2) of the transport act 1962 and section 18 of the British railways act 1997"

I'm absolutely devastated, I'm not a criminal! It was a simple mistake which when explained to me I tried to correct straight away and apologised. He didn't even listen to me and made me feel like a absolute criminal and humiliated. I would never set out to do anything like that. As I say I work in the system to stop this behaviour from people! Iv never been in trouble in my life!

 

[Fare-Cop]

What legislation are you being prosecuted under? This should be detailed in the court summons. It makes a big difference as to the possible consequences, depending on what this is. This will also affect the proper advice for what you should do.

If you are being prosecuted under the railway Byelaws, then intention is not important: these are 'strict liability offences', so not having a valid ticket for your journey will mean that prosecution would suceed. If prosecution is successful then you will receive a fine but NOT a criminal record.

The more serious offences that you may be being prosecuted under are the 'Regulations of the Railways Act' (for fare evasion) or the Public Order Act (for offensive behaviour). These require more evidence for prosecution (for RORA, it requires proof of intent to evade a fare). If prosecution is successful then you will receive a higher fine and a criminal record.

Train companies are often willing to settle out of court, but the accusation of offensive language might mitigate their willingness to do this. If the prosecution is under either of the latter two laws, then they will be less willing - you will probably want a lawyer in this case.

Again though - if you let us know more about the laws under which you are being prosecuted then we can provide better advice.

I notice that the OP has posted this incident on another forum where the same 'advice' and much similar comment as that provided here by cuccir has been given.

I have not commented on that other forum, but will offer here that it is not necessary to invoke the Public Order Act in order to prosecute the allegation of 'offensive' behaviour of this nature because this is also specifically covered by National Railway Byelaws 6.1 (2005) .

The OP has already confirmed elsewhere that both the S.5.3 RoRA offence and the Byelaw 6.1 charges have been summonsed.

 

[34D]

Sounds like this is one for a solicitor to handle.

Just to emphasise that a section 5.3 of RoRA offence carries a maximum sentence of a £1,000 fine or 3 months in prison.

 

[Fare-Cop]

Sounds like this is one for a solicitor to handle.

Just to emphasise that a section 5.3 of RoRA offence carries a maximum sentence of a £1,000 fine or 3 months in prison.

Generally correct, but there is no chance of custodial sentence for a first offence.

The maximum sentence is a fine of up to £1000, or for a second or subsequent offence, a term of imprisonment not exceeding 3 months.

Generally speaking the fine on conviction will be around £400 if proven without any response from a defendant, reduced by a third if an early guilty plea is entered.

 

[cuccir]

Just to follow up, I'd also echo the advice to speak to a solicitor in this instance: the accusation of abusive and offensive language takes this beyond the usual ticketing dispute.

It might be useful for you to write down an exact transcript of the conversation as you remember it though - if your intention is to contest this claim then having as solid evidence as you can will be useful (the ticket officer will have his notes from the day).

With regards to the ticketing dispute, they will be attempting to argue that the handing over of an out-of-date ticket displays intention to avoid paying a fare. This is an established action in case law which is taken as showing intent.

 

[Flamingo]

I'm puzzled by this one - not only can I not see any motivation for the Revenue Inspector to make up details of a verbal assault that did not happen, I know first-hand that without supporting evidence, it becomes one persons word against another, which means it has very little chance of being taken to court.

The actual ticket irregularity is so common that if everybody who was found was sent to court we'd never run the railway.


I wonder if the OP noticed any witnesses?

 

[Yew]

Did the inspector ask you to sign his notebook underneath the transcript of the conversation? If you signed that bit then contesting the matter becomes more difficult as it could be argued that signature counts as agreeing to his transcript of things.

 

[Clip]

I dont understand how the RPI got very nasty right away as soon as they were approached. Doesnt seem right to me.

 

[Becky_kay]

Just a update,

No I didn't sign any note pad that I can remember? And yes he did become funny straight away, wouldn't listen to a word I was saying when I was trying to explain I hadn't realized and just seemed intent on booking me etc.

Anyway I have spoken to the company and explained the situation and I honestly hadnt intended to fare dodge and was very sorry it looked that way etc. Thankfully they have agreed to settle out of court which I'm sooo relieved at n greatful for!

 

[Smudger105e]

Just a update,

No I didn't sign any note pad that I can remember? And yes he did become funny straight away, wouldn't listen to a word I was saying when I was trying to explain I hadn't realized and just seemed intent on booking me etc.

Anyway I have spoken to the company and explained the situation and I honestly hadnt intended to fare dodge and was very sorry it looked that way etc. Thankfully they have agreed to settle out of court which I'm sooo relieved at n greatful for!

Glad you are satisfied with the outcome and that the ticketting experts on here (I am not one of them) were able to advise you in a professional and reasoned way, as usual.

 

[34D]

Are you able to say (perhaps by PMing one of the regular posters) what settlement terms were achieved, as it's useful to keep track of.

 

[Fare-Cop]

Are you able to say (perhaps by PMing one of the regular posters) what settlement terms were achieved, as it's useful to keep track of.

A good post, but there isn't any reason why Becky_Kay shouldn't post that information openly on here if she wishes to do so with personal details removed. It may well prove useful to others in a similar situation, after all that's what the forum is for.

 

[Becky_kay]

Il post it on here I don't mind, it would be useful for people going through the same I guess as like I say it was one of the most horrific times for me facing that. I think with the initial shock of it all I was too intent on trying to make them believe I was innocent, which made me sound like I was feeling like a victim and not taking it seriously enough.

I rang them again after taking advice on another forum as well and explained the situation I was in and how It would affect my job etc and apologised, said i honestly hadn't meant to fare evade I'd never been caught for anything like that before and I was deeply sorry it looked that way. I offered them a out of court settlement which they refused, then called back and said they had looked at my file and reviewed it and would do it for a certain amount of money which I paid. I've also wrote them a letter of thanks and apology too for any upset caused with my silly comment to the officer.

 

[bb21]

Thanks for the additional information. Would you be happy to disclose the settlement amount? Is it the standard £80? I think that is what the others meant.