Court Summons - representation help requested!

[brigadier]

Hey everyone, have done some brief research online regarding my predicament and think this is the best place to ask for help.

Had an issue on a train late November last year that has resulted in a court summons letter. Here's the info according to your guidelines:

The stations where you started & finished your journey;
Birkenhead North to London Euston

The stations where you changed trains (if applicable);
Liverpool Lime Street

If you presented a ticket(s), the information stated under "Ticket type", "From", "To", "Route", and any other relevant details;
1st Anytime Return - London Terminals to Birkenhead North - Route: Any Permitted

What happened in any encounter with railway staff;
Some agent came over and asked me "are you quite comfortable?" rather rudely. I replied yes I am then took my ticket out of my wallet as I guessed that was what he wanted to check. He then said "that makes a change usually people fitting your description don't even bother to travel with a ticket". (Don't see how he can make that inference - I was in a suit and work in a bank. Rather irrelevant anyway!)

After scrutinizing my ticket he then goes on to recite the caution used by police saying he was going to report me for having my feet up on the seats! After hearing the caution I let him know I would decline to comment any further unless I had a legal representative present. He said in that case I would have to leave the train at the next station. (So much for you do NOT have to say anything!)

Apparently I am obliged to give my name and address verifiable against the electoral roll so I just showed him my driving license then left the train as ordered so he couldn't make up some rubbish about not cooperating. I obviously declined to answer the rest of his questions (simple "No Comment" reply).

The details of any paperwork with which you were issued.
None

So after everything I got a court summons this week charged with Merseyrail Byelaw 6(8) 2002 something about "Interfering with the comfort of passengers". Apparently there is an option to pay them some money to cancel the prosecution but that's not going to happen.

So I suppose I have two questions really:

1. Can this land me with a criminal record?
2. Can anyone recommend a good railway solicitor for representation in court?

Any help is much appreciated! Many thanks!

 

[bb21]

What did you actually get pulled up for?

As for providing nane and address, if an offence is suspected to have been committed, then yes, you do have to provide them when requested.

 

[Darandio]

What did you actually get pulled up for?

Having their feet on the seats, thats how i've read it anyway, especially as they are being prosecuted for 'Interfering with the comfort of passengers'.

They have subsequently said they won't pay and want their day in court, good luck with that! Kind of befitting of someone who feels that kind of behaviour is acceptable.

 

[najaB]

So I suppose I have two questions really:
1. Can this land me with a criminal record?
2. Can anyone recommend a good railway solicitor for representation in court?

1. To the best of my knowlege, no as it's a Byelaw prosecution.
2. You don't need a railway lawyer. Although it occurred on a train, you need no more specialist railway law knowledge than if it were a summons for smoking in a public building, or failing to pick up your dog's mess.

 

[anme]

They have subsequently said they won't pay and want their day in court, good luck with that! Kind of befitting of someone who feels that kind of behaviour is acceptable.

Please could you explain where the OP has said that? I can only see one post from the OP in this thread and it doesn't say either of those things.

 

[Darandio]

1. To the best of my knowlege, no as it's a Byelaw prosecution.

It seems to me as if they is being prosecuted under Byelaw 6(8)?

This is under unacceptable behaviour and in specific 'No person shall molest or wilfully interfere with the comfort or convenience of any person on the railway'.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Please could you explain where the OP has said that? I can only see one post from the OP in this thread and it doesn't say either of those things.

Sure, it says both of the things I said.

Apparently there is an option to pay them some money to cancel the prosecution but that's not going to happen.

Can anyone recommend a good railway solicitor for representation in court?

If they aren't going to pay, surely they want their day in court?

 

[trainophile]

It's about time Merseyrail got a bit more proactive about enforcing this bylaw, so many of them seem to turn a blind eye or just indicate to the offender that they should remove their feet from the seats, and walk on by.

There was a case some years ago where a young woman wearing flip-flops was taken to court for having her feet on the seats, and the outcome did not go in her favour. I'd suggest the OP cooperates and pays any requested fine, otherwise it won't end well for him.

Edit: My apologies, the case I was remembering was actually thrown out of court, so I got that wrong. However there has been a subsequent event when five people were fined £220 each for a similar offence...

http://www.southportvisiter.co.uk/news/southport-news/five-people-prosecuted-after-being-8747771

 

[cjmillsnun]

Simple question. Did you have your feet up on the seats?

If so, pay up and shut up. It is one of the things that infuriates me the most I have no wish to sit on the dirt and muck that was on someone's shoe.

 

[455driver]

Maybe the OP would like me to wipe my shoes all over a seat before they sit down on it, it only seems fair!

 

[brigadier]

Thank you to NajaB for answering my questions in a helpful manner!

As to some of the other replies (appreciate not all), yes I do want to, and have the right to have this heard in court. I have already spoken to my regular solicitor when the letter originally came through and they are pretty sure they can have this thrown out. Just wanted a bit of extra advice from people who are clued up on such things.

To the last person, I am not going to "pay up and shut up" - throwing money to make an issue go away isn't something I'm about. If they want their money they can have it after successfully arguing their case in court, which quite honestly I feel they have none!

 

[najaB]

I have already spoken to my regular solicitor when the letter originally came through and they are pretty sure they can have this thrown out. Just wanted a bit of extra advice from people who are clued up on such things.

It's going to be your word against the Inspector's that you didn't have your feet on the seat. Are you sure that your story will be more believable than his? As that's all the case will turn on - bear in mind that they have access to CCTV, etc. so if your feet even appear to be on the seat, you will lose.

To the last person, I am not going to "pay up and shut up" - throwing money to make an issue go away isn't something I'm about. If they want their money they can have it after successfully arguing their case in court, which quite honestly I feel they have none!

See above - the only case they have to make is that your feet appear to be on the seat. I'm all for standing on principles, but choose your battles well. Good luck if you decide to fight.

 

[bb21]

I think your questions are answered. I doubt you will get more help on here than what you already have.

I don't know on what grounds your solicitor thinks the case can be thrown out of court, but whatever you do, good luck and I am sure the court will make a correct decision.