Court Summons for October 30th - Advice needed

[LucaChuck]

On September 3rd 2024, I was stopped at London Bridge by a Southern Eastern Officer. Given that I was unable to produce a valid ticket for my journey from Crawley to London Bridge, I have been asked a series of questions as part of the MG11 statement procedure. I have provided my correct details, and been given a slip of paper with a case reference and a notice of prosecution. I have “short-ticketed” from Crawley to Clapham Junction for the past eight months. This is the first time my name goes on a Transport Company record for unpaid fares.

I have received the letter asking for my version of what happened. I have replied to it following your advice:

• Show insight, remorse and be sorry for what has happened
• Make clear what I have learnt from the incident
• Be keen to settle the matter without the need for court action
• Offer to pay the outstanding fare and the train company's administrative costs in dealing with the matter

However, I have received this morning the court summoning at Bexley Magistrates Courts for the 30th of October. Please find attached all the documentation received. The MG11 statement is correct.

I was wondering if you can provide any advice on how to proceed further. Is there possibility to serve time? Is pleading guilty the best option?

Thank you for your support.

 

[FrochsNewNose]

Funnily enough I just received one of these this morning as well!!

Had written to them with the whole out of court settlement thing but I noticed on the day I got caught that there were about 25 people just from my train that got pulled up and so they are just sending out mass court summons. As I mentioned when I got caught at the time I'd been doing it for a couple of months, so being taken to court for 27.60 plus 150 and a fine is probably a half decent outcome in light of everything, I'll be pleading guilty and just getting on with life.

 

[furlong]

You could take legal advice on the question of whether, at London Bridge, having paid to travel on the railway the "certain distance" between Clapham Junction and London Bridge, you can be considered to have travelled "beyond" that distance.

Did you mention anything about the previous journeys to them? If you did, have you got proof of that? This may help you negotiate a settlement out-of-court (offering to reimburse them for the other journeys if they otherwise couldn't prove them).

 

[Fawkes Cat]

On September 3rd 2024, I was stopped at London Bridge by a Southern Eastern Officer. Given that I was unable to produce a valid ticket for my journey from Crawley to London Bridge, I have been asked a series of questions as part of the MG11 statement procedure. I have provided my correct details, and been given a slip of paper with a case reference and a notice of prosecution. I have “short-ticketed” from Crawley to Clapham Junction for the past eight months. This is the first time my name goes on a Transport Company record for unpaid fares.

I have received the letter asking for my version of what happened. I have replied to it following your advice:

• Show insight, remorse and be sorry for what has happened
• Make clear what I have learnt from the incident
• Be keen to settle the matter without the need for court action
• Offer to pay the outstanding fare and the train company's administrative costs in dealing with the matter

However, I have received this morning the court summoning at Bexley Magistrates Courts for the 30th of October. Please find attached all the documentation received. The MG11 statement is correct.

I was wondering if you can provide any advice on how to proceed further. Is there possibility to serve time? Is pleading guilty the best option?

Thank you for your support.

One thing that may not be obvious is that if you plead (or are found) guilty then you will have to pay a fine, a surcharge and court costs on top of the prosecution costs and compensation that is mentioned on page 1 of what you have shown us. To make sure that the fine is not too much, it's really important to complete the 'statement of financial circumstances' on page 8.

I'd also point out that we have, I think, seen in the last few weeks cases of Southeastern apparently not receiving replies of the sort that you have sent in. It might be worth sending them another copy - on paper, and to their address, but by one of Royal Mail's signed for services (first class or second class) with a covering letter asking if they received it when first sent. If it's that they wrongly think that you are ignoring them then they might then move back to allowing you to settle out of court - which would still involving paying them for the ticket and costs, but avoid the fine and court costs.

But if Southeastern are determined to prosecute (and they are within their rights to do so) since you do not seem to disagree with the facts, then I would advise pleading guilty: looking at the papers I see that they will allow you to plead guilty by post. If you do that, and send in the statement of financial circumstances, you should get the lowest available fine.

 

[LucaChuck]

One thing that may not be obvious is that if you plead (or are found) guilty then you will have to pay a fine, a surcharge and court costs on top of the prosecution costs and compensation that is mentioned on page 1 of what you have shown us. To make sure that the fine is not too much, it's really important to complete the 'statement of financial circumstances' on page 8.

I'd also point out that we have, I think, seen in the last few weeks cases of Southeastern apparently not receiving replies of the sort that you have sent in. It might be worth sending them another copy - on paper, and to their address, but by one of Royal Mail's signed for services (first class or second class) with a covering letter asking if they received it when first sent. If it's that they wrongly think that you are ignoring them then they might then move back to allowing you to settle out of court - which would still involving paying them for the ticket and costs, but avoid the fine and court costs.

But if Southeastern are determined to prosecute (and they are within their rights to do so) since you do not seem to disagree with the facts, then I would advise pleading guilty: looking at the papers I see that they will allow you to plead guilty by post. If you do that, and send in the statement of financial circumstances, you should get the lowest available fine.

I did send it the first time via Royal Mail’s signed for service. However, I will never have a confirmation that they read my letter. I don’t think I have enough time to resend the letter to ensure that they have received it. I sent an email requesting to kindly consider the out of court settlement once again. Otherwise, I’ll plead guilty. Thank you for your reply.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 Oct 2024 ==

You could take legal advice on the question of whether, at London Bridge, having paid to travel on the railway the "certain distance" between Clapham Junction and London Bridge, you can be considered to have travelled "beyond" that distance.

Did you mention anything about the previous journeys to them? If you did, have you got proof of that? This may help you negotiate a settlement out-of-court (offering to reimburse them for the other journeys if they otherwise couldn't prove them).

Hi, thank you for your reply. No, I have never mentioned the past journey and I have never been told about it in the initial letter, or the court summoning received this morning.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 Oct 2024 ==

Funnily enough I just received one of these this morning as well!!

Had written to them with the whole out of court settlement thing but I noticed on the day I got caught that there were about 25 people just from my train that got pulled up and so they are just sending out mass court summons. As I mentioned when I got caught at the time I'd been doing it for a couple of months, so being taken to court for 27.60 plus 150 and a fine is probably a half decent outcome in light of everything, I'll be pleading guilty and just getting on with life.

I believe this is what is left to do. I’m just sorry for myself for having a conviction on my criminal record. However, I was reading that this is a minor offence and it is spent after a year. I will plea guilty and submit my statement, including the following mitigating factors: No history of fare evasion and be willing to cover whatever amount I’ll be asked to. I hope it does not get any worse than this.

 

[FrochsNewNose]

I did send it the first time via Royal Mail’s signed for service. However, I will never have a confirmation that they read my letter. I don’t think I have enough time to resend the letter to ensure that they have received it. I sent an email requesting to kindly consider the out of court settlement once again. Otherwise, I’ll plead guilty. Thank you for your reply.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 Oct 2024 ==


Hi, thank you for your reply. No, I have never mentioned the past journey and I have never been told about it in the initial letter, or the court summoning received this morning.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 Oct 2024 ==


I believe this is what is left to do. I’m just sorry for myself for having a conviction on my criminal record. However, I was reading that this is a minor offence and it is spent after a year. I will plea guilty and submit my statement, including the following mitigating factors: No history of fare evasion and be willing to cover whatever amount I’ll be asked to. I hope it does not get any worse than this.

I've just been reading some more forums on here and it seems like Southeastern have been either ignoring or not receiving letter that have been sent in. I am going to send an email to them to say I had originally sent a letter to them and see if they respond, might be worth doing as well just in case they come back and say they'll accept payment not through the courts.

Forum - https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/southeastern-letter.269861/#post-6897916

 

[Bikerfedup]

Thank you for sharing your experience. I and am currently waiting for the initial letter from Southeastern. My plan is to settle out of court, and I truly hope this will be accepted. However, if it isn’t, I’d appreciate some advice on when to expect a court date.

I’m particularly concerned because I will be abroad for two weeks in February, and I fear that I might receive a court notice during that time, which would prevent me from responding promptly. I noticed that in your case, the court date was issued quite soon after the initial letter. What would happen if I received the court notice while I was away and missed the court date as a result? I’m quite anxious about this possibility and would greatly appreciate any advice anyone can offer. I live alone so I can’t rely on anyone to sort this in my absence

 

[Elecman]

Thank you for sharing your experience. I received my MG11 on 14th October 2024 and am currently waiting for the initial letter from Southeastern. My plan is to settle out of court, and I truly hope this will be accepted. However, if it isn’t, I’d appreciate some advice on when to expect a court date.

I’m particularly concerned because I will be abroad for two weeks in February, and I fear that I might receive a court notice during that time, which would prevent me from responding promptly. I noticed that in your case, the court date was issued quite soon after the initial letter. What would happen if I received the court notice while I was away and missed the court date as a result? I’m quite anxious about this possibility and would greatly appreciate any advice anyone can offer. I live alone so I can’t rely on anyone to sort this in my absence

It’s is a Forum Rule not to mix 2 different posters requests as it’s often that the : cases are not identical. Therefore if you need advise please start your own thread

 

[WesternLancer]

On September 3rd 2024, I was stopped at London Bridge by a Southern Eastern Officer. Given that I was unable to produce a valid ticket for my journey from Crawley to London Bridge, I have been asked a series of questions as part of the MG11 statement procedure. I have provided my correct details, and been given a slip of paper with a case reference and a notice of prosecution. I have “short-ticketed” from Crawley to Clapham Junction for the past eight months. This is the first time my name goes on a Transport Company record for unpaid fares.

I have received the letter asking for my version of what happened. I have replied to it following your advice:

• Show insight, remorse and be sorry for what has happened
• Make clear what I have learnt from the incident
• Be keen to settle the matter without the need for court action
• Offer to pay the outstanding fare and the train company's administrative costs in dealing with the matter

However, I have received this morning the court summoning at Bexley Magistrates Courts for the 30th of October. Please find attached all the documentation received. The MG11 statement is correct.

I was wondering if you can provide any advice on how to proceed further. Is there possibility to serve time? Is pleading guilty the best option?

Thank you for your support.

Has been a clutch of cases on here in last few weeks with southeastern seemingly not receiving responses from people and things escalating to court. Do all you can to contact them again with copies of your original msg and polite note asking if they received it as you’d not heard back before getting court papers.

Don’t try going via customer services. Etc you need to go to prosecutions team. Do you have an e mail for them?

 

[Hadders]

Southeastern normally offer an out of court settlement in these sort of cases, unless the person doesn't co-operate with their investigation.

@WesternLancer is correct that we have seen some instances where letters seem to have gone missing at Southeastern. I would reach out to their Prosecutions Department and ask if they received your letter.

 

[LucaChuck]

Good morning, and thanks for your reply. When I called the prosecution team number yesterday, they confirmed they had received my response. However, they did not clarify whether this was considered in weighing their decision.

 

[AlterEgo]

Good morning, and thanks for your reply. When I called the prosecution team number yesterday, they confirmed they had received my response. However, they did not clarify whether this was considered in weighing their decision.

Did you ask them whether they would be amenable to settling the case out of court?

 

[LucaChuck]

Good morning, I sent an email yesterday and this morning to prosecutions.team@southeasternrailway.co.uk requesting an out of court settlement given the court summoning.

They replied to me offering the settlement. See attached. Please note that the settlement was offered given my complete compliance to the process. Please take accountability for what you have done (if you have evaded fare wilfully) because it did help me in achieving the settlement. At the same time, I would recommend not to volunteer information if you have not been asked to.

What can I say…. Lesson learnt.

 

[WesternLancer]

Good morning, I sent an email yesterday and this morning to prosecutions.team@southeasternrailway.co.uk requesting an out of court settlement given the court summoning.

They replied to me offering the settlement. See attached. Please note that the settlement was offered given my complete compliance to the process. Please take accountability for what you have done (if you have evaded fare wilfully) because it did help me in achieving the settlement.

What can I say…. Lesson learnt.

Glad to hear this has now been resolved out of court

I don't think we really know whether they are losing the responses people are sending to these cases or behind with dealing with them such that court papers are getting issued before the responses from the passenger are dealt with. Perhaps it is the former. If others are reading this I think the lesson is if you get some court papers have another go at engaging with the train operator urgently to ask again for an out of court settlement.

 

[SuspectUsual]

As an aside, why do the likes of Southeastern continue to state "[our] policy is to prosecute all those who have been reported for fare evasion" when quite clearly it isn't their policy at all. (Indeed, the very next sentence of their email contradicts it)

 

[John R]

As an aside, why do the likes of Southeastern continue to state "[our] policy is to prosecute all those who have been reported for fare evasion" when quite clearly it isn't their policy at all. (Indeed, the very next sentence of their email contradicts it)

I've often wondered that. It does feel a bit misleading.

 

[Hadders]

As an aside, why do the likes of Southeastern continue to state "[our] policy is to prosecute all those who have been reported for fare evasion" when quite clearly it isn't their policy at all. (Indeed, the very next sentence of their email contradicts it)

They say this as a deterrent. If they didn't people would be less likely to engage with them.

A bit like shops having a notice saying 'we always prosecute shoplifters'.

 

[SuspectUsual]

They say this as a deterrent. If they didn't people would be less likely to engage with them.

A bit like shops having a notice saying 'we always prosecute shoplifters'.

That doesn't work when the two statements are consecutive sentences in the same letter though, does it? I'd understand it if the fact finding letter was heavy handed and the second one more conciliatory, but unless they only want the deterrent to last for two seconds its madness

 

[Bikerfedup]

Good morning, and thanks for your reply. When I called the prosecution team number yesterday, they confirmed they had received my response. However, they did not clarify whether this was considered in weighing their decision.

I’m so happy for you! Please can you confirm the prosecution teams number ?

 

[LucaChuck]

I've just been reading some more forums on here and it seems like Southeastern have been either ignoring or not receiving letter that have been sent in. I am going to send an email to them to say I had originally sent a letter to them and see if they respond, might be worth doing as well just in case they come back and say they'll accept payment not through the courts.

Forum - https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/southeastern-letter.269861/#post-6897916

I’m so happy for you! Please can you confirm the prosecution teams number ?

03300959327

 

[Haywain]

They say this as a deterrent. If they didn't people would be less likely to engage with them.

And, of course, they do prosecute those who don’t engage with them. So, the proof is in the exception.

 

[FrochsNewNose]

@LucaChuck Thanks for putting the number in, I was perturbed to see that you had already received a response from Southeastern, knowing that I'd probably emailed earlier than yourself. I was able to speak to someone on the phone who said they'd be willing to consider letting me have an out of court settlement if I emailed in again which I have now done. Going to keep my fingers crossed that they actually come back to me.

 

[LucaChuck]

@LucaChuck Thanks for putting the number in, I was perturbed to see that you had already received a response from Southeastern, knowing that I'd probably emailed earlier than yourself. I was able to speak to someone on the phone who said they'd be willing to consider letting me have an out of court settlement if I emailed in again which I have now done. Going to keep my fingers crossed that they actually come back to me.

I emailed them on Tuesday afternoon, and then again yesterday morning around 8a.m. They replied about 40 minutes later. I wish you all the best mate.

 

[molsul26]

I have had the same issue and emailed in to offer out of court settlement but no response yet and court date looming. The phone number provided above and on the letter goes to a payment team who say they cannot help. Has anyone had this and can’t advise?

 

[island]

I have had the same issue and emailed in to offer out of court settlement but no response yet and court date looming. The phone number provided above and on the letter goes to a payment team who say they cannot help. Has anyone had this and can’t advise?

Please make a post of your own including all details and photos/scans of the paperwork you received. No two cases are exactly the same so it is requested that all individual cases go on their own thread.