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Council derails Cranleigh to Guildford plans.

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Aictos

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I supposed said council thinks a busway would be far more viable, just have a look on how well the Cambridge busway is going for any proposed one to be rejected.
 

yorksrob

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Unfortunately I suspect we'll see more of this sort of thing. The Wealden Line campaigners(Lewes - Uckfield) seem to have endless problems with their county council judging by their website.
 

Mojo

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Problem is, the councils can only work within their mandate and the sad fact is that loony busways get a bigger share of funding from central government than sensible rail-based transports.
 

yorksrob

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Yes, and judging by re-openings in the rest of the UK, they seem to under-estimate the potential patronage of new lines.
 

Drsatan

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Idiots. Reopening a railway is a far more sensible idea than building a guided busway:

  • Normal buses can't use guided busways due to the guidance systems required, so special buses have to be employed
  • It'll almost certainly run over budget (although the same can be said of many recent rail reopenings) and open late
  • Finally, if a guided busway is built, then the buses will STILL get stuck in traffic in Guildford town centre, which negates the purpose of building a guided busway

This means that at a time when the government is nagging us to use public transport, the poor inhabitants of Cranleigh will still have to use their cars, which is not good for the environment, or indeed your personal wellbeing (stress of driving in rush-hour traffic, cost of running a car). The mind boggles.
 

Metroland

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It's a sad state of affairs that because of past political interference, historical underinvestment, health and safety paranoia, plus the overmanagement of the railway and union pay demands, the railway has basically priced itself out of all but the most lucrative schemes.

This is the reason I have been ranting on about costs for the last few weeks. Governments of any shade will not fund rail at any cost. The Labour government have cancelled a fair few light rail schemes, and we've never really had the re-openings as promised - unless you live in Wales and Scotland.

I don't personally support busways at all. I think they are a complete waste of time and money. It's telling, there are very few of them about around the world, and most have only partial success at best.

Buses are perfectly useful in their own context, this is not an anti-bus post, but planners have to be honest about what they can really provide. Despite 24 times the rights of way compared to National rail, Buses and coaches have roughly the same passenger KMs. They are extremely ineffective at getting people out of cars unless you give the tickets away, or under very special circumstances. They have, in the main, constantly lost passengers since the 50s, while rail has actually grown its passenger Kms and journeys, despite 40% less network.

Unfortunately this does not mean politicians and planners will scrap busway ideas. Only the other day in Bristol the Portishead branch re-opening was effectively scrapped in favour of bendy buses.

As most of the rail companies are run by bus companies, there seems very little political lobbying in favour of rail over bus. So get ready for third world Britain, where we sit in lines of traffic in buses, while much of the rest of the world invests in metros, tramways and super-fast high speed trains.

Its a very sad state of affairs.
 

yorksrob

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Yes, seems to reflect a blind spot in the political establishment that we've been stuck with for decades. Whilst buses are fine for short distance transport, they simply aren't attractive enough for longer distances - as many of the post Beeching rail replacement services illustrated.
 

Oliver

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Idiots. Reopening a railway is a far more sensible idea than building a guided busway:

  • Normal buses can't use guided busways due to the guidance systems required, so special buses have to be employed
  • It'll almost certainly run over budget (although the same can be said of many recent rail reopenings) and open late
  • Finally, if a guided busway is built, then the buses will STILL get stuck in traffic in Guildford town centre, which negates the purpose of building a guided busway

This means that at a time when the government is nagging us to use public transport, the poor inhabitants of Cranleigh will still have to use their cars, which is not good for the environment, or indeed your personal wellbeing (stress of driving in rush-hour traffic, cost of running a car). The mind boggles.

Has anyone actually proposed a guided busway? There is nothing about one in the original posting.

BTW: some pics of the line as it was: http://nick301.photos.us.com/c1349412.html
 

tripleseis

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7 Sep 2008
Messages
207
It's a sad state of affairs that because of past political interference, historical underinvestment, health and safety paranoia, plus the overmanagement of the railway and union pay demands, the railway has basically priced itself out of all but the most lucrative schemes.

This is the reason I have been ranting on about costs for the last few weeks. Governments of any shade will not fund rail at any cost. The Labour government have cancelled a fair few light rail schemes, and we've never really had the re-openings as promised - unless you live in Wales and Scotland.

I don't personally support busways at all. I think they are a complete waste of time and money. It's telling, there are very few of them about around the world, and most have only partial success at best.

Buses are perfectly useful in their own context, this is not an anti-bus post, but planners have to be honest about what they can really provide. Despite 24 times the rights of way compared to National rail, Buses and coaches have roughly the same passenger KMs. They are extremely ineffective at getting people out of cars unless you give the tickets away, or under very special circumstances. They have, in the main, constantly lost passengers since the 50s, while rail has actually grown its passenger Kms and journeys, despite 40% less network.

Unfortunately this does not mean politicians and planners will scrap busway ideas. Only the other day in Bristol the Portishead branch re-opening was effectively scrapped in favour of bendy buses.

As most of the rail companies are run by bus companies, there seems very little political lobbying in favour of rail over bus. So get ready for third world Britain, where we sit in lines of traffic in buses, while much of the rest of the world invests in metros, tramways and super-fast high speed trains.

Its a very sad state of affairs.
Depressing isn't it?!

I'm especially miffed (but not surprised) by the Portishead branch scheme prefering bendy buses, which will get stuck in the same traffic which a re-opened rail branch would help reduce! I don't live in the area but from what I've read and seen, the town is crying out for the branch to be re-instated for passenger use, but I guess the men in suits would rather rake in money from all that fuel duty they get off the motorist stuck in those jams.
 

LMS6202

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The old, old story. Greed before need. With regard to bus firms running railways this idea was mooted in reverse in 1947 by the GWR prior to nationalisation. I.E The existing big four taking over bus firms as subsidiaries. The Labour government did not like that idea as it meant too great a stake in one sector by private firms.
 
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