could xc be stripped of franchise

[387star]

With a fine now in place does the future look bleak for XC failing to provide wireless. What affect might this have on its finances and why wasn't it implemented?

 

[asylumxl]

If you mean why wasn't WIFI implemented, because XC felt it'd be prohibitively expensive e.g. They don't want to spend a penny. They even wanted to let people hire dongles for a fee, rather than install WIFI.

If that wasn't what you meant, my apologies.

 

[ainsworth74]

I would suggest the effect on their finances won't be all that much seeing as they seem to be quite happy paying a fine rather than installing wi-fi.

As for having their franchise stripped, unless they really annoy DfT in some other way I can't see them losing their franchise over non-installation of wi-fi on their trains. But you never know, the DfT move in mysterious ways.

 

[mumrar]

Whilst failing to provide Wi-fi has undoubtedly broken a franchise commitment, ask customers to choose between quick reliable trains that run well, or Wi-fi, I think I know which they'd choose.

XC have been working very close with Bombardier aand Tyseley to invest in maintenance initiatives to reduce the amount of catastrophic failures (where a train is cancelled). Last period the 220 fleet achieved an average MPC figure of high 70,000 miles. Contrast this to East Coasts falling figures for their electric 225 fleet and the fact they are going to abolish free Wi-fi.

 

[mickey]

I would suggest the effect on their finances won't be all that much seeing as they seem to be quite happy paying a fine rather than installing wi-fi.

As for having their franchise stripped, unless they really annoy DfT in some other way I can't see them losing their franchise over non-installation of wi-fi on their trains. But you never know, the DfT move in mysterious ways.

I don't expect it to be removed from them, but I assume the DfT would take the failure to follow franchise commitments seriously when it came to franchise renewal.

 

[Greenback]

Apart from XC wi-fi, are there any other franchise commitments that a TOC has failed to meet, and if so, what were the consequences?

 

[Pumbaa]

Apart from XC wi-fi, are there any other franchise commitments that a TOC has failed to meet, and if so, what were the consequences?

NXEC - Premium payments. We all know what happened then

 

[tbtc]

Seems to me it's cheaper to pay the fine than to implement the franchise commitment.

In the current environment, the Government would probably rather rake money in from "naughty" franchises than see the money spent in Wi-Fi

 

[Zoe]

I thought it was a franchise commitment to provide extra seats through Birmingham using the HSTs but they seem happs to have at least 2 of them sitting around doing nothing and packing everyone onto Voyagers.

 

[mumrar]

I thought it was a franchise commitment to provide extra seats through Birmingham using the HSTs but they seem happs to have at least 2 of them sitting around doing nothing and packing everyone onto Voyagers.

This seems to have been done to death, they liberated seats on the Voyager fleet by removing the shops on every set, and come December 4 HST sets will be back in use weekdays (out of 5). The reason they don't use them is down to track access charges and maintenance costs too.

 

[YorkshireBear]

are the 4 back in use because of southampton services? so with this will xc see an increase or decrese in capacity

 

[rail-britain]

With a fine now in place does the future look bleak for XC failing to provide wireless. What affect might this have on its finances and why wasn't it implemented?

Surely Arriva would lose the XC franchise, not XC losing the franchise

I am not surprised the fine has been applied, rather than an attempt to install WiFi
The fine is probably cheaper than the installation costs, which would include some train down time

Equally, it was the DfT that specified the requirement, not Arriva including it in their bid

 

[Zoe]

Surely Arriva would lose the XC franchise, not XC losing the franchise

It would be XC Trains Ltd that lost the franchise, they are the legal company that operate the franchise rather than Arriva plc. It may be a small difference but it is quite significant as it's how National Express avoided losing all of their franchises when they lost East Coast.

 

[jopsuk]

Aye, National Express rather managed to make a mockery of the cross-default rule.

 

[hello]

any truth that db want to swap ten voyagers with emt, for ten hsts for the xc franchise. something to do with bombardier putting pantographed coaches into voyagers

 

[swt_passenger]

are the 4 back in use because of southampton services? so with this will xc see an increase or decrese in capacity

The Southampton extension on its own only uses one extra 22X unit, so that on its own won't necessarily require all the HSTs in use daily.

 

[EWS 58038]

Apart from XC wi-fi, are there any other franchise commitments that a TOC has failed to meet, and if so, what were the consequences?

Guess the WiFi thing is not the only franchise commitment CX failed to meet:
http://railwayeye.blogspot.com/2010/09/arriva-cross-country-spanked-for-lack.html

 

[Pumbaa]

any truth that db want to swap ten voyagers with emt, for ten hsts for the xc franchise. something to do with bombardier putting pantographed coaches into voyagers

No - this rumour has been through the mill so many times, no truth whatsoever.

 

[87015]

Aye, National Express rather managed to make a mockery of the cross-default rule.

Apart from not defaulting but handing it back, which is rather different legally.

 

[Failed Unit]

Why would xc invest in facalities to get more people on their trains. They are full anyway. Poor XC it is hard to be a jack of all trades. Its product is right as a short distance commuter operator and wrong as a long distance one. I understand most of it's money comes from the short hops.

 

[387star]

Thanks.. I was also wondering if th voyager noise could be reduced I know they have underfloor engines but surely these coul dbe made less noisy.. the main fault of these trains for me s the noise.. I could cope with the rock hard seats if it wern't for the dreadful noise... gives me a headache everytime.. surely something can be done about the noise levels!!

And it would be excellent for EMT to give XC all their HSTs in a swap for voyager as XC need them more!! (well I am biased never travelling on EMT!)

 

[MCR247]

Its not that loud :?

And why would EMT want voyagers?

EMT have 13 HST sets I think. In return XC would need to give EMT 26 voyagers to make EMT no worse off, although it still isn't idea at all for them. They'd have to hire extra staff etc. Its not that good now is it.

 

[Failed Unit]

Its not that loud :?

And why would EMT want voyagers?

EMT have 13 HST sets I think. In return XC would need to give EMT 26 voyagers to make EMT no worse off, although it still isn't idea at all for them. They'd have to hire extra staff etc. Its not that good now is it.

Emt people prefer the HST as well. Double sets increase staff costs as their is no corridor connection.

Wandering off topic a couple of things.
If Coventry - Bassingstoke was ever wired as a follow on from the GWML scheme would a 100mph EMU keep timings?

Anyone think demand would exist for some faster services. Yes I know we don't have stock and probably paths but.

Edinburgh - Newcastle - York - Leeds - Sheffield - Derby - Birmingham - Bristol - Exeter - Plymouth

Glasgow - Carlisle - Preston - Wolverhampton - Birmingham - Oxford - Reading - Heathrow (assuming track to feltham ever built)

I am sure I will get why not stop at x which will show up XCs biggest problem that it stops too often to keep through journey options high. I don't think having Birmingham - Tamworth passengers over crowding services to the north is a good thing.

 

[route:oxford]

Glasgow - Carlisle - Preston - Wolverhampton - Birmingham - Oxford - Reading - Heathrow (assuming track to feltham ever built)

Isn't that the plan when Virgin obtain the Pantograph coaches for the Voyagers?

West Coast to Brum. Down Pantograph
Brum to Hayes & Harlington, Up Pantograph & Reversal
Hayes & Harlington to Heathrow.

 

[MCR247]

But if they don't they will just run to Hayes & Harlington

 

[tbtc]

It's a real shame EMT didn't build a further dozen long 222s to replace all their HSTs, to give a common High Speed fleet. Are there any other operators who may need 222-equivalents at some stage, who EMT could tag an order on to?

If Coventry - Bassingstoke was ever wired as a follow on from the GWML scheme would a 100mph EMU keep timings?

I've wondered whether XC could move to 100mph max, since that'd mean a lot more stock could operate those services.

100mph+ matters on the Doncaster - Darlington stretch, but most XC services could cope with 100 mph max

 

[MCR247]

It's a real shame EMT didn't build a further dozen long 222s to replace all their HSTs, to give a common High Speed fleet. Are there any other operators who may need 222-equivalents at some stage, who EMT could tag an order on to?

Remember that it was MML who first got them, and they were only intended to replace the 170s and the 9 car were to be used to Leeds

 

[ainsworth74]

Remember that it was MML who first got them, and they were only intended to replace the 170s and the 9 car were to be used to Leeds

Oh so that's why they were 9 cars long. I always thought the initial lengths for Meridians seemed a little crazy 9 and 4 cars, quite a difference! It is shame that more weren't ordered as longer units or just more ordered generally probably the best Intercity DMU out there (180 would be best for me if it weren't for the reliability).

 

[tbtc]

Remember that it was MML who first got them, and they were only intended to replace the 170s and the 9 car were to be used to Leeds

..if only!

That would have been brilliant. The "nine coach" saga was a real low-spot on privatised railway, with the chance they would end up in Ireland etc. It showed there was nobody in charge of the railways, but lots of fudging...

 

[swt_passenger]

Its not that loud :?

And why would EMT want voyagers?

EMT have 13 HST sets I think. In return XC would need to give EMT 26 voyagers to make EMT no worse off, although it still isn't idea at all for them. They'd have to hire extra staff etc. Its not that good now is it.

... and then how would XC use 13 HSTs if exchanged for 26 Voyagers? - It could only work if XC currently ran 13 paired Voyager diagrams every day, and they don't do anything like that. So extra HSTs would give similar capacity but there'd have to be a lower frequency of some services...