Could Wrexham central station be closed?

[Cambrian359]

Following on from the current discussion here https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...ranchise-swap-etc.165699/page-13#post-4261754

is there really any point to Wrexham central given how close it is to Wrexham general? It has to be the most unpleasant station I've come across.
Would it not be better to close it and people just use Wrexham general like most people have to for most destinations.
Would also make fare evasion easier to manage if gates were installed at general ( mentioned in above linked topic),would allow more turnaround times for services particularly during disruption and not to mention better facilities(every time I’ve gone past central the shelter has been closer to a open human toilet than a shelter)

thoughts? Is it really needed?

 

[Djgr]

Well what I would say is that a TOC's inability to correctly manage its station or fares collection is not a basis for deciding on the future of a station.

Customers currently have a choice of Central or General. Which are they choosing to use? And that gives you your answer.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

There was more point when Central was in its original location further east.
It was built by a separate company (WMCQ), with onward Cambrian connections to Ellesmere and beyond.
None of that applies today - you can scarcely see any sign of the original route through the town beyond the modern Central.
A direct connection with the Chester route would make a difference, to avoid all that faffing around reversing at Watery Road loop to reach the Bidston line.

 

[markymark2000]

I would personally scrap Central. It has it's uses for commuters and those who want the shopping park but otherwise, General is much easier.
From a maintenance and security perspective, surely it's better to close Central as well. With all passengers on the 'South Wales' or the island platform, that makes passengers much easier to manage and for maintenance, you are looking at 1 less lift and 2 less platforms to maintain (1 at General and 1 at Central). It has to cost more than it's worth to keep the Central branch. If it wasn't there, no one would be calling for it to be built but because it's there, those who use it will kick up the most fuss that they will be stranded.

 

[Brush 4]

From a history trivia point of view, Wrexham is the only General to have survived. WR abolished all the General names in the 70's by changing them to Central or, where a second station had closed, just the town name. Cardiff General is now Central. However at Wrexham there was already a Central so General had to remain.
At Exeter, when the WR took over the SR lines in 1963, they changed Central to General then, in the 70's back to Central.
Reading is one exception to the second station rule, losing General in 1975 to plain Reading, even though West remained.

 

[30907]

At Exeter, when the WR took over the SR lines in 1963, they changed Central to General then, in the 70's back to Central.

Are you sure? I don't recall seeing this in either the timetables or the platform signs, and using the title General for what was then very much the secondary station would not have been WR practice.

 

[Bletchleyite]

What was the purpose for the use of the term General? Central, of course, had two meanings - the most central station (e.g. Liverpool Central isn't the Hauptbahnhof and never really was, whereas the Dutch use it to mean that) or a station on the Great Central Railway which often were anything but central.

General would seem to be a Hauptbahnhof equivalent? That is, Wrexham General is the main station but Wrexham Central is nearer the actual town centre.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

What was the purpose for the use of the term General? Central, of course, had two meanings - the most central station (e.g. Liverpool Central isn't the Hauptbahnhof and never really was, whereas the Dutch use it to mean that) or a station on the Great Central Railway which often were anything but central.
General would seem to be a Hauptbahnhof equivalent? That is, Wrexham General is the main station but Wrexham Central is nearer the actual town centre.

Reading had a Central station - the goods depot near the River Kennet/K&A Canal, which was reached "round the back" from Southcote Jn.
But it wasn't really any more central than General, and I don't think it was ever a passenger station.
Chester was also a General (to distinguish it from the CLC's Northgate before it closed), and wasn't a GWR station (jointly operated with the LNWR/LMS).

 

[ElectroSoldier]

The UK cant really be seen to have an equal to the German Central station due to the way they were built.

What you look at on the map today and see a complete railway network didnt start like that.
For instance the line from Bidston to Wrexham Central sorta makes no real sense as it should just go to Wrexham General but ...

When Wrexham General was built it was nowhere near the center of town, it was on the north western edge of it. today the town is very different to then. and then the line was Chester to Shrewsbury.

A company called Wrexham, Mold and Connah's Quay Railway basically (there is a lot more to it than I will say here) opened the line from Buckley to Wrexham in 1862, the terminus was later renamed Wrexham Exchange.
about 20 years later they extended the line to link up to another railway company called the Wrexham and Ellesmere railway which went south from Wrexham down to Ellesmere. At that time the old terminus station of Wrexham Exchange station was taken out of service and they started using Wrexham Central instead (Wrexham Exhange stations platform is still in use, it is Wrexham General platform 4, as Wrexham Exchange and Wrexham General were right next to each other. Each owned by different companies with different destinations.

Its that that is the most important thing to remember, and where most people get lost looking at it all these days.
Back then where they didnt have common destinations, much the same as today really, but then it was more previlant,
If you wanted to go to Harwarden then you went to Wrexham Exchange (or later Wrexham Central) if you wanted Chester then you went to Wrexham General. General because it was not in the center of town it was on the north west edge of the town.

Im surprised Wrexham Central is still there today. it was kept in the Beeching cuts because of the hap hazard way in which those recommendations were made, the way only an economist could. Its now a relic that doesnt really make any sense, but as far as I know only an act can remove it as it has to be served due to the act that created it saying so... Or more basica laymans terms, they have to put train services there by law.

Now before LNW-GW Joint steps in and says its not right i would say its only the very broadest of strokes to try and explain when its not really possible to give it a german equal. OUr companies were pioneers, railway fever was a very real thing, there were many companies all trying to make money and not really thinking about town planning along the way.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Back then where they didnt have common destinations, much the same as today really, but then it was more previlant,
If you wanted to go to Harwarden then you went to Wrexham Exchange (or later Wrexham Central) if you wanted Chester then you went to Wrexham General. General because it was not in the center of town it was on the north west edge of the town.

Im surprised Wrexham Central is still there today. it was kept in the Beeching cuts because of the hap hazard way in which those recommendations were made, the way only an economist could. Its now a relic that doesnt really make any sense, but as far as I know only an act can remove it as it has to be served due to the act that created it saying so... Or more basica laymans terms, they have to put train services there by law.

Now before LNW-GW Joint steps in and says its not right i would say its only the very broadest of strokes to try and explain when its not really possible to give it a german equal. OUr companies were pioneers, railway fever was a very real thing, there were many companies all trying to make money and not really thinking about town planning along the way.

I'm just stepping in to say that of course the WMCQ became the MS&L (GC/LNER) and also built routes from Hawarden Bridge to Chester Northgate and Bidston.
So you could get from Wrexham to Chester that way, and Manchester via Northwich or Liverpool via Bidston.
Shotton steelworks was built because of the easy rail access to those lines.

The German thing is because they were largely state-owned (Land-level initially) and with a strong military influence which favoured through stations and freight bypasses - all very useful today.
We were stuck with the private construction and lax planning rules which left us with multiple stations in many towns without interconnection between them.
Wrexham was rather a minor player in this really, compared to Liverpool, Manchester, Birmingham...
We wouldn't have a Castlefield corridor problem today if the CLC had doubled the original viaduct rather than build its own viaduct and terminus at Manchester Central.

 

[ElectroSoldier]

Yeah I was wondering if you were going to say something and then be corrected or wait for somebody to say something and then correct them.

I will say however that the MS&L became the GC and it wasnt until after that they they looked to venture into the mineral and coal fields of north wales and so took up with the WMCQ because of common goals. And dont forget that the GC had a stake in the CLC.

I didnt mention any of that because while I know all about it and can, in all honesty, be told very little thats new to me I didnt think saying that they wanted to push north to Birkenhead and tried several times to do so was strictly relevant to Wrexham stations, why they are there and why General is called General and why Central is where it is.

The WMCQR didnt really become The GC, the GC was already there and looking to go where the WMCQr was.

 

[Old Yard Dog]

What would be the point of closing Wrexham Central? It is more convenient than General for the town centre and bus station - and enjoys through workings to Bidston for Liverpool. Indeed I changed at General to catch a train to Central last Thursday night en route to a CAMRA meeting at the Nags Head. It was only a 10 minute wait. It would have been even better if they hadn't shortened the line and moved the station a few years ago.

 

[Cambrian359]

What would be the point of closing Wrexham Central? It is more convenient than General for the town centre and bus station - and enjoys through workings to Bidston for Liverpool. Indeed I changed at General to catch a train to Central last Thursday night en route to a CAMRA meeting at the Nags Head. It was only a 10 minute wait. It would have been even better if they hadn't shortened the line and moved the station a few years ago.

I can walk from central to general in under 5 minutes, same from bus station to general. The train journey takes under a minute between the two stations! Are bidston line users really not about to walk the extra couple of minutes to general like all other users!
Just seems like an unnecessary cost. But yes if they had not shortened the line then perhaps it would be more worthwhile

 

[6Gman]

I looked at closing Central in my (forward) train planning days. Wasn't worth doing then, not sure it would be now.

 

[6Gman]

What was the purpose for the use of the term General?

My understanding is that it was used to indicate a station serving more than one company.

(But no doubt someone will find me exceptions ... )

 

[ElectroSoldier]

My understanding is that it was used to indicate a station serving more than one company.

(But no doubt someone will find me exceptions ... )

Close. GWR called stations General when there was more than one station serving the town. When it was called when it was opened Im not 100% sure. I dont think it was Wrexham General though, more likely to have just been Wrexham, which is why its not easy to find out.

 

[6Gman]

Close. GWR called stations General when there was more than one station serving the town. When it was called when it was opened Im not 100% sure. I dont think it was Wrexham General though, more likely to have just been Wrexham, which is why its not easy to find out.

I was thinking more generally (see what I did there? ) of places off the GWR.

 

[chris_in_salop]

Isn't Wrexham a fairly marginal seat?

 

[ElectroSoldier]

I was thinking more generally (see what I did there? ) of places off the GWR.

In the case of Wrexham you might well be right. It was a station that inherited rather than chose to make

 

[xc170]

I really don't see any reason to close it.

It's half a mile of track with low speed running, terminating in a small, basic, unstaffed station, the cost of keeping it open must be pennies in comparison to some of the other basket case the taxpayer funds to keep open.

 

[Gareth]

Would be cool if that stub could be incorporated into a future tram system for Wrexham. Probably not likely though, anytime soon.