Could we see 777 units on TfW's Borderlands line?

[dorsetdesiro]

Then keep the line/infrastructure under Welsh control, and just have the Borderlands line Merseyrail operated as it cannot be all Liverpool City region devolved as the non-Cheshire part is in another country? It would have obviously be more straightforward if Wrexham & Flintshire were in England then they would naturally would come under Liverpool City Region however there are de-facto two countries in this situation.

Wales & England are mostly fortunate enough not to endure hostilities on either side but scenarios like a lockdown can cut off communities just because of the two parts being sandwiched between different jurisdictions.

I wonder how do border cities/regions, in Europe (along the lines of Basel (Switzerland/Germany/France), manage with cross-border transport links with open borders also subject to different laws etc however have partnerships between the two like Irish Rail & Translink NI jointly running Enterprise etc, how this will work with TfW/Welsh Government and Merseytravel/Liverpool City Region?

 

[HSTEd]

Then keep the line/infrastructure under Welsh control

But the line and infrastructure are not really under Welsh control.
They remain the property of the British state, with access rights etc distributed by the same process used in the rest of GB.

Just because the Welsh government currently operates a service that operates over them does not mean they are under Welsh government control.

The only rail infrastructure under the control of the Welsh government is those segments of the Valley Lines that were recently transferred to them.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

The nominal NR operational boundary on the line, between LNW(N) and Wales routes, is at MP 11 north of Dee Marsh Jn (presumably the extent of its signalling control).
This is pretty much where the line crosses the England/Wales boundary, near Burton Point.
Meanwhile Chester PSB controls the coast line as far as Connah's Quay, so Shotton HL/LL are in different NR routes.
Local governments on both sides of the border do work together to develop the wider area (Wirral/Cheshire West/NE Wales).

 

[8H]

There is a continuing obsession with boundaries here, all sorts of boundaries will be disappearing as GBR emerges and as the privatisation era TOC structure become meaningless. We also have long established Wales/England cooperation and a series of service/infrastructure improvements on the route after years of nothing happening. I can’t see a problem here. Specifically on the 777’s surely the only difficulty is technical and there appear to be solutions already to hand, why wouldn’t there be cooperation to provide two regions North Wales & Merseyside with improved public transport ?????????

 

[dorsetdesiro]

Not sure how GBR will fit in here other than the infrastructure as both parts - Merseytravel & TfW - are devolved and would not be under GBR when it debuts also there's possibility of infrastructure being transferred to the Welsh & Scottish governments in the future as GBR would really only apply to non-devolved parts of England?

1 - Transfer services to Merseyrail, with the line subject to TfW/WG
or
2 - Leave the line as it is, all TfW, convert the 230s or new trains without Merseyrail involvement
or
3 - Full Merseytravel takeover of the service & line, but how when a part is in another country?

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

There is a continuing obsession with boundaries here, all sorts of boundaries will be disappearing as GBR emerges and as the privatisation era TOC structure become meaningless. We also have long established Wales/England cooperation and a series of service/infrastructure improvements on the route after years of nothing happening. I can’t see a problem here. Specifically on the 777’s surely the only difficulty is technical and there appear to be solutions already to hand, why wouldn’t there be cooperation to provide two regions North Wales & Merseyside with improved public transport ?????????

Boundaries exist for many reasons. The only obsession that I see is one specific to railways, which "heretically-speaking" on a website such as this, is unfortunately to be expected.

What are your future plans for the police forces, for one example. Would you ban the wearing of identifiers in the Welsh language?

 

[Djgr]

for the sake of a line on a map.

If the line on the map you are referring to is the boundary between the countries of England and Wales then this is a rather naive statement.

 

[Krokodil]

All this talk of 777s being used in the future as an antidote to the 230s feels a bit ironic given that the reliability of them atm is shockingly bad.

Last time I looked they were level-pegging in the Mp701D league table. Both equally bad.

Would you agree that the major station on this line is a Welsh one and the English stations are small in comparison to it

From Penyffordd northwards Liverpool is almost equally large a draw. The sensible thing to do is that Merseyrail should operate the services, with joint funding from Merseytravel and the Welsh Government, and TfW look after the stations. That would allow through running onto the loop, and simplify crew and unit resourcing (no more sending Chester crews to Birkenhead North in taxis). Four 777/1s in traffic for Helsby and six for Wrexham (assuming a half-hourly through service) makes for better economies of scale than a seperate fleet for each.

There is also school traffic to/from Hope as well at the southern part of the line. I don't know what the local arrangements are in those areas but in Shropshire pupils are often given train passes to cover their journeys, so no tickets would be required. Probably need checking from time to time though...

The school kids at Hope are notorious and the guards have been begging management for some RPI support for ages. The school isn't very cooperative in terms of encouraging the parents to purchase educational discounted season tickets.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

The sensible thing to do is that Merseyrail should operate the services, with joint funding from Merseytravel and the Welsh Government, and TfW look after the stations.

In any recent Merseyravel future-period budgetary forecast, has there ever been the matter discussed that you mention above.

 

[Krokodil]

In any recent Merseyravel future-period budgetary forecast, has there ever been the matter discussed that you mention above.

Merseytravel already provide some funding towards the line, as part of it falls within their sphere of influence.

 

[Djgr]

Merseytravel already provide some funding towards the line, as part of it falls within their sphere of influence.

In terms of looking at development, yes, but, to my knowledge, not towards operational costs.

 

[Krokodil]

In terms of looking at development, yes, but, to my knowledge, not towards operational costs.

Funding of concessionary travel?

 

[Djgr]

Funding of concessionary travel?

That is true. And so do the Welsh government on the part of the line in their country. Missing link (as ever) is Cheshire.