Could Trams be Built in the UK?

[MK Tom]

Bombardier recently delivered large numbers of new trams for Blackpool and Manchester - why weren't these built at Derby? That seems like an obvious way to generate extra work for the plant. I know Derby had a role in building the EuroTrams for Strasbourg, so there is tram building in its past, and they built Movia metro units for LUL. It seems wasteful that every tram in service in the UK was built abroad now.

 

[northwichcat]

Possibly because the orders are too small? If all the cities with trams ordered the same family of tram (exactly the same type isn't possible) then maybe building trams in the UK would be more viable?

 

[MK Tom]

Well it'd be additional work for the plant, rather than having a plant just for tram production. The Manchester order was massive. They'll be ordering more after 2CC and if the tram-train expansions go ahead.

 

[Manchester77]

Quite the orders for metrolink went from 40 to 62 to 74 to 94 and now that's likely to increase to 104 (with the Trafford Centre line) with the possibility for more.

I guess the Europose factories are more used to making trams?

 

[WatcherZero]

Wasnt there something about Derby only having the machine tools to work Aluminium and not Steel or vice versa? Came up with the Pendolino order.

I dont think Bombardier considered it worthwhile retraining staff and equipping a factory to build the tram design when they already had a production plant for the model capable of turning out a couple a week for the different clients. While it costs in the order of £30,000 to ship a tram from Austria to the UK its a drop in the ocean compared to the total build costs.

 

[Eagle]

I dont think Bombardier considered it worthwhile retraining staff and equipping a factory to build the tram design when they already had a production plant for the model capable of turning out a couple a week for the different clients. While it costs in the order of £30,000 to ship a tram from Austria to the UK its a drop in the ocean compared to the total build costs.

This, basically. And the reason they're made overseas is because those are the plants that make those designs. The products that Derby make at the moment are Turbo/Electrostars and Movias (and Aventras when those get going).

 

[starrymarkb]

The trams built at Derby were Adtranz designs. Bombardier discontinued them in favour of their Austrian built Flexity range.

Also Croydon and Manchester were both tag ons to existing orders for Koln (who order in bulk), it would make sense to build in the same factory rather then ship/duplicate tooling in Derby

 

[northwichcat]

Quite the orders for metrolink went from 40 to 62 to 74 to 94 and now that's likely to increase to 104 (with the Trafford Centre line) with the possibility for more.

So the invitation to tender document would have only guaranteed 40 trams with the option to increase up to around 100 and the option for more was taken up. That's only a small initial order. Remember 20 x 4 car 350s was considered a small order by Siemens which they said they couldn't deliver quickly because resource would be utilised on important larger orders.

 

[Manchester77]

So the invitation to tender document would have only guaranteed 40 trams with the option to increase up to around 100 and the option for more was taken up. That's only a small initial order. Remember 20 x 4 car 350s was considered a small order by Siemens which they said they couldn't deliver quickly because resource would be utilised on important larger orders.

The number of trams required increased as funding became available, the initial 40 was when only Phase 3A was guaranteed funding and then 62 when Phase 3B was funded, 72 when 12 T68s were guaranteed to be replaced, 94 when all old trams were to be replaced. I can see what you mean by the small order and how it would be a bit over the top to duplicate all the equipment for what was initially 40 trams and as more and more trams are ordered its more sustainable to centralise rather than have smaller plants.

 

[WatcherZero]

Even smaller, the initial order was 8 (quite quickly expanded to 12) with options for a total of 94 (at the time the anticipated total requirement of phase 3a and 3b including Trafford and the Airport Western loop not at presently under construction) They used the existing options for the T68/T68a replacement as some of the extensions didnt go ahead under phase 3. A further 10 have now been ordered for the new Trafford line.

 

[edwin_m]

The Trafford line ones are quoted as having been ordered in advance of any approval for the route because the production line is about to shut down and restarting it would have increased the cost for the ten by more than £2m.