Could there ever be an express service timetabled between London and Southend?

[465 Forever]

Will there ever be a Southend Express?
Such a thing would be extremely beneficial to Southend Airport and indeed Southend itself.
Southend has become a really nice place and l think it deserves a faster service to and from London.
What do more learned members think?
What would be the most challenging issues to overcome?

 

[700007]

Will there ever be a Southend Express?
Such a thing would be extremely beneficial to Southend Airport and indeed Southend itself.
Southend has become a really nice place and l think it deserves a faster service to and from London.
What do more learned members think?
What would be the most challenging issues to overcome?

Probably not but it is going up to 4 trains an hour on the Greater Anglia branch.

 

[TheEdge]

You'll probably never see an express. The service is already frequent and going to get more with the new timetables planned, just not the call for it.

The issue is, and will always be, paths, especially south of Shenfield. There just isn't the available space to go throwing in services like that when those paths could be much better used for services that stop.

 

[Panupreset]

A limited stop Stratford, Romford, Shenfield, Wickford, Southend Airport might work. Potentially room for a bay platform at Southend Airport. Don't know who owns the land next to the down platform at Southend Airport.

In the current timetable their might be scope to fit the down road after the xx02 Ipswich before the xx13 Southend Victoria.

 

[ainsworth74]

One presumes that there wouldn't be any capacity on the c2c route to Fenchurch Street?

 

[Panupreset]

Do you mean for c2c to stop at Southend Airport?

 

[ainsworth74]

Do you mean for c2c to stop at Southend Airport?

No, that wouldn't really help as then they'd be on the crowded GA route to Liverpool Street via Shenfield which has already been identified as problematic by other posters. But if the goal is a better service for Southend then it's worth considering that there is another way to London that doesn't go via Shenfield. However my suspicion is that that route is no quieter and is equally lacking in capacity for new fast services.

 

[3141]

Maybe the Southend Express could use the sort of rolling stock suggested here https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/my-idea-for-pullman-express-for-seml.167843/

 

[NorthKent1989]

Southend has indeed become a nice place to live, and with Southend Airport you’d think there would be a faster service.

However could Southend become the Essex equivalent to Brighton in terms of rail services? I don’t think so, the LTS line is pretty full and Greater Anglia I imagine must be the same, though I’m not familiar with this portion of the network, I know semi fast trains do already run from Southend via Wickford, after Shenfield the train only calls at Romford and Stratford before Liverpool Street, The LTS Line is also pretty premium since in the London area it only makes calls at Upminster, Barking, West Ham and Limehouse.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

I'm sure there used to be 1tph "fast" between Shenfield and Liverpool Street during the years when the suburban services terminated at Gidea Park. I vaguely remember 3tph to Southend Victoria and 1tph to Southminster during the late 1980s/early 1990s

 

[465 Forever]

Thanks to moderator for rewording the title, it does sound better like that.

 

[JonathanH]

A limited stop Stratford, Romford, Shenfield, Wickford, Southend Airport might work. Potentially room for a bay platform at Southend Airport. Don't know who owns the land next to the down platform at Southend Airport.

In the current timetable their might be scope to fit the down road after the xx02 Ipswich before the xx13 Southend Victoria.

What has a stop at Romford got to do with an *express* service from Liverpool Street to Southend Victoria?

 

[jfisher21]

There used to be a few first stop benfleet trains then all stops to Southend, got to Southend central in 45 mins if I recall correctly.

 

[306024]

A limited stop Stratford, Romford, Shenfield, Wickford, Southend Airport might work. Potentially room for a bay platform at Southend Airport. Don't know who owns the land next to the down platform at Southend Airport.

In the current timetable their might be scope to fit the down road after the xx02 Ipswich before the xx13 Southend Victoria.

Their ( ) might not be, that’s a booked freight path.

Many years ago, from memory there was a timetable that had an hourly xx.20 off peak Southend which was fast to Billericay. Other trains were xx.05 to Southminster, xx.25 and xx.45 to Southend. These called Stratford, Ilford, Romford then all stations, with the xx.20 following the xx.05 on the Southend branch.

No chance of a fast Southend on the GE these days. Plus Billericay, Wickford and Rayleigh are three of GA’s best earning stations. You wouldn’t want to miss those.

Yes LTS Benfleet flyers were the fastest trains between London and Southend.

 

[PeterC]

I'm sure there used to be 1tph "fast" between Shenfield and Liverpool Street during the years when the suburban services terminated at Gidea Park. I vaguely remember 3tph to Southend Victoria and 1tph to Southminster during the late 1980s/early 1990s

In 89 the only through trains to the Southminster branch were in the peaks.
The off peak was 3tph stopping between Shenfield and Southend. 1 was fast from LST and the other two were Stratford, Ilford, Romford and all stations. The 3tph pattern was filled by a Witham train which connected into the fast at Shenfield.

Still 3tph but 2 fast from Stratford to Shenfield and one calling at Romford.

 

[AM9]

In the '70s, the off-peak was 3tph stopping at Stratford, Ilford, Romford and all stations to Southen Victoria. The one than lest Liverpool St at about xx:45 was timed to arrive at Shenfield to connect with the vv:00 Clacton/Walton service (at xx:23).
For most of the peak, the Southend line service comprised a fast to Billericay, then every station to Southend every 10 minutes, interleaved with a 'slow' which stopped at Stratford, Harold Wood and then every station to Southend. This was acheieved by the slows using the mains then swapping over to the electric lines just east of Gidea Park. The fasts were mainly 12-car and the slows, 8-car.

 

[JBuchananGB]

The current 3tph off peak Shenfield to Southend is OK. 4tph will be better. There are still fast from London to Southminster calling Stratford, Wickford, then all stations. Down the evening peak, up in the morning.

What we really need for the airport is some trains to get to the early morning (e.g. 7am) flights.

 

[PeterC]

In the '70s, the off-peak was 3tph stopping at Stratford, Ilford, Romford and all stations to Southen Victoria. The one than lest Liverpool St at about xx:45 was timed to arrive at Shenfield to connect with the vv:00 Clacton/Walton service (at xx:23).
For most of the peak, the Southend line service comprised a fast to Billericay, then every station to Southend every 10 minutes, interleaved with a 'slow' which stopped at Stratford, Harold Wood and then every station to Southend. This was acheieved by the slows using the mains then swapping over to the electric lines just east of Gidea Park. The fasts were mainly 12-car and the slows, 8-car.

Wrong way round, swapped from electric to main east of Gidea Park then back to electric between Maryland and Stratford. IIRC there wasn't quite a 24 hour service in both directions but a pretty short gap between last and first trains.

 

[Class 170101]

Before Crossrail became a serious proposal there were through Southminster services all day. 315 operated duting the off peak with one metro extending there from Shenfield whilst in the peaks it was class 312/321 operated.

 

[dk1]

With the upcoming ramp to a 15min frequency along with the importance of the intermediate stations & the revenue they bring in I see very little chance of a fast service on this route.