Could the class 222s go to Scotrail?

[Scotrail84]

Possibly but as I said above, looking very likely GWR are getting them.

mods note - split from this thread

ScotRail need units to replace the 170s and HSTs, talk of 222s going to them in the future.

 

[43096]

ScotRail need units to replace the 170s and HSTs, talk of 222s going to them in the future.

The HSTs are on lease to March 2030 and the 170 fleet is leased until March 2035. In particular, why would they be looking at 170 replacement?

 

[Lurcheroo]

ScotRail need units to replace the 170s and HSTs, talk of 222s going to them in the future.

Would be an interesting move. Interesting that 170’s need replacing but not the older sprinters.
Perhaps they’d be better off going with a fleet replacement program similar to TFW.

 

[The exile]

Would be an interesting move. Interesting that 170’s need replacing but not the older sprinters.
Perhaps they’d be better off going with a fleet replacement program similar to TFW.

Presumably the need for replacement is driven by the HSTs, with 170s being bundled in for uniformity on Long distance services.

 

[Blindtraveler]

The sprinter fleet is knackered and worn out but so is the 170 fleet which shouldn't be the case but they have been worked far harder I think than they were ever meant to be

 

[Lurcheroo]

Presumably the need for replacement is driven by the HSTs, with 170s being bundled in for uniformity on Long distance services.

Ahh that would make some sense. I suppose we will see what they do.

 

[Energy]

The sprinter fleet is knackered and worn out but so is the 170 fleet which shouldn't be the case but they have been worked far harder I think than they were ever meant to be

The 170s aren't particularly powerful and struggle with the Scottish hills. I wouldn't be suprised if being run much harder is affecting them more than other turbostar operators.

Alternatively, the 222s are going to be much quicker to accelerate than the 170s so Scotrail will need to get them of Inter7City services if they want to speed up the timetable.

Or they just want the 170s elsewhere for short term sprinter replacement. The 170s have the great benefit of being able to work with Scotrail's remaining 156s, 158s, or the cycling converted 153s.

 

[TheWalrus]

ScotRail need units to replace the 170s and HSTs, talk of 222s going to them in the future.

Personally I would send 222s to XC with 220/221s cascaded to Scotrail for Aberdeen to Glasgow & Edinburgh, HSTs go on Inverness-Glasgow/Edinburgh/Aberdeen with 170s cascaded to XC to strengthen their 170 operated services. However I think a more likely outcome is the 222s go straight to Scotrail with the 220/221s remaining at XC.

 

[Scotrail84]

Personally I would send 222s to XC with 220/221s cascaded to Scotrail for Aberdeen to Glasgow & Edinburgh, HSTs go on Inverness-Glasgow/Edinburgh/Aberdeen with 170s cascaded to XC to strengthen their 170 operated services. However I think a more likely outcome is the 222s go straight to Scotrail with the 220/221s remaining at XC.

Whatever, if any class of 22X do go to ScotRail, they will need retrofitted with guards door control panels as the current DOCO agreement doesn't cover diesel units, only electric units.

 

[LowLevel]

Whatever, if any class of 22X do go to ScotRail, they will need retrofitted with guards door control panels as the current DOCO agreement doesn't cover diesel units, only electric units.

Class 222 has guards panels (pods) throughout, although the number of vehicles to be released is selected by the driver and they then release the doors to the guard who actually commits to putting up the passenger release. They can be released directly by the driver bypassing the guard but this function isn't used in service.

 

[Scotrail84]

Class 222 has guards panels (pods) throughout, although the number of vehicles to be released is selected by the driver and they then release the doors to the guard who actually commits to putting up the passenger release. They can be released directly by the driver bypassing the guard but this function isn't used in service.

That would still need to be changed, the guard has full control over all door operations on DMUs and of course HSTs with ScotRail. Driver takes nothing to do with them. A new agreement would be needed or the ability for the guard to select which coaches/doors are released would need fitted somewhere, unless they can use the ASDO system in the back cab right enough.

 

[LowLevel]

That would still need to be changed, the guard has full control over all door operations on DMUs and of course HSTs with ScotRail. Driver takes nothing to do with them. A new agreement would be needed or the ability for the guard to select which coaches/doors are released would need fitted somewhere, unless they can use the ASDOsystem in the back cab right enough.

They'd need a new agreement. Most things on a class 222 are guard operated through the train management system (they were given a pretty premium specification by Midland Mainline) but the selective door operation has always been driver controlled and having half an idea how it works I'm not sure how you could rework it without a structural rebuild - the guard can't operate the doors from the cab of a class 222, the layout isn't at all suited to it and the step is far worse than even a 170 - they're closer to climbing into a locomotive.

Personally as a guard myself I would be taking the view that the units really aren't designed for Driver Only Operation (I believe they were speculatively assessed by the ROSCO and the cab environment was found to be unsuitable for conversion) and that a new agreement to cover new trains is the way forward.