Could Northern get additional stock?

[david l]

Moderator note: Split from

Northern Unit Refurbishments and depot allocations.

Thought we should have a thread to track the refurbishment process of the units staying within, and joining, the Norrhern fleet. 158752+150275 went from Neville Hill to Kilmarnock yesterday as 5Z58 - http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/K97555/2016/04/02/advanced These are expected to be the...

www.railforums.co.uk

Seems that there are some mods required on Northern's 195 units and to cover 4 x TfW 158's are coming to Northern upon release from TfW, remainder of the TfW 158's (20 odd) going to GWR - could that mean some of the recently overhauled GWR 150's going to Northern??

 

[LittleGidder]

Seems that there are some mods required on Northern's 195 units and to cover 4 x TfW 158's are coming to Northern upon release from TfW, remainder of the TfW 158's (20 odd) going to GWR - could that mean some of the recently overhauled GWR 150's going to Northern??

I’d have thought Northern would get more than 4 158s.

 

[david l]

I’d have thought Northern would get more than 4 158s.

Apparently only short term as well.

 

[LittleGidder]

Apparently only short term as well.

Sorry but What a joke, Northern need more carriages, has been a problem for a long time!

 

[Mollman]

Sorry but What a joke, Northern need more carriages, has been a problem for a long time!

Well if 20 158s are going to GWR then that would release some 150s or 175s for Northern.

 

[D6130]

Well if 20 158s are going to GWR then that would release some 150s or 175s for Northern.

175s will not be going to Northern.

 

[DannyMich2018]

175s will not be going to Northern.

I think most people will know the best place for the dreadfully troublesome 175s to go to...

 

[CR165022]

Well if 20 158s are going to GWR then that would release some 150s or 175s for Northern. Anyway that is too close to speculation.

GWR need all the stock they can get so they won't be releasing anything. Especially given both the 150s and 175s are currently being refurbished/overhauled for them.

 

[LittleGidder]

Well if 20 158s are going to GWR then that would release some 150s or 175s for Northern. Anyway that is too close to speculation.

I suppose so. 175s….no way, trains that catch fire easily won’t fit well with Northern.

 

[Class 466]

I think most people will know the best place for the dreadfully troublesome 175s to go to...

The Southport Line seems like a good place for troublesome units…

 

[Anvil1984]

There’s 20 769s in storage, give Northern a good offer and they could cover 7 diagrams daily (tongue firmly in cheek but struggling to see anything else on the market)

 

[david l]

The Southport Line seems like a good place for troublesome units…

When the 175's were first introduced, Wigan (SP) instructors were trained on them (Ron Davies RIP and others) as there was going to be some work for Wigan men on them, with some units to be stabled overnight at Wigan Wallgate but a change meant that never came off.

 

[LittleGidder]

There’s 20 769s in storage, give Northern a good offer and they could cover 7 diagrams daily (tongue firmly in cheek but struggling to see anything else on the market)

769s are apparently awful units, especially on diesel I’ve heard, I wouldn’t know as I’m yet to get on one.

 

[brad465]

Is there any truth in GWR getting TfW 158s? I thought this was ruled out due to different engine types between these and their current 158 fleet.

 

[Anvil1984]

Is there any truth in GWR getting TfW 158s? I thought this was ruled out due to different engine types between these and their current 158 fleet.

Apparently it stems from an answer given in a Northern Stakeholder Meeting when asked whether the TFW units would be coming to Northern. No official announcement from any party yet

769s are apparently awful units, especially on diesel I’ve heard, I wouldn’t know as I’m yet to get on one.

Oh they are highly unreliable hence why I said it kinda sarcastically

 

[Rail Quest]

Will the TfW 158s need to have their cabs converted back to their original design in order to start with Northern and GWR? If so, it could still be a while before these units even get to either operator as we're still yet to see 197s starting on Cambrian and TfW aren't exactly doing well for stock themselves at the moment. If there are mods required for the 195s and the work is imminent, is it possible we could see a bit of a stock shortage?

 

[LittleGidder]

Will the TfW 158s need to have their cabs converted back to their original design in order to start with Northern and GWR? If so, it could still be a while before these units even get to either operator as we're still yet to see 197s starting on Cambrian and TfW aren't exactly doing well for stock themselves at the moment. If there are mods required for the 195s and the work is imminent, is it possible we could see a bit of a stock shortage?

Northern with a stock shortage would be a horrendous thing, already are struggling as we speak. Something to do with ETCS I’ve heard with the TFW 158s and it having to be removed.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Yesterday at 08:30 ==

And also what are the 195 modifications?

 

[TastyMaltesers]

Will the TfW 158s need to have their cabs converted back to their original design in order to start with Northern and GWR?

I am told the answer to that question is "yes".

 

[amahy]

GWR need all the stock they can get so they won't be releasing anything. Especially given both the 150s and 175s are currently being refurbished/overhauled for them.

Is there any reason that GWR should randomly have priority over Northern for more units, given that both operators have a shortage?

 

[TastyMaltesers]

Is there any reason that GWR should randomly have priority over Northern for more units, given that both operators have a shortage?

I suppose the question is, how is the allocation decided? Do the DfT decide it all, or is it whoever makes the first and/or best offer to the ROSCO?

 

[SuspectUsual]

Is there any reason that GWR should randomly have priority over Northern for more units, given that both operators have a shortage?

Question 1 - does your TOC serve London? is the traditional first cut for priority

(See also XC)

[\sarcasm]

 

[yorksrob]

150's aren't everyone's favourite units, however if the GW ones were sent up here, they could all be reformed into 3 carriage sets more suited to modern needs.

Also worth noting that the GW 150's have less tired interiors and many have 2+2 seating which is better suited to modern needs.

So yes, let's have em.

 

[TastyMaltesers]

150's aren't everyone's favourite units, however if the GW ones were sent up here, they could all be reformed into 3 carriage sets more suited to modern needs.

Also worth noting that the GW 150's have less tired interiors and many have 2+2 seating which is better suited to modern needs.

So yes, let's have em.

I don't think GWR would want to let go of the 150s, seeing as they appear to be the only units cleared to work on many of the south western branch lines!

 

[speedy1]

Beef or chicken stock maybe.

Just kidding: vegetable is cheaper

 

[yorksrob]

I don't think GWR would want to let go of the 150s, seeing as they appear to be the only units cleared to work on many of the south western branch lines!

True, they're the mainstay there. I was getting mixed up with the Cardiff ones, however they're TFW of course !

 

[bramling]

150's aren't everyone's favourite units, however if the GW ones were sent up here, they could all be reformed into 3 carriage sets more suited to modern needs.

Also worth noting that the GW 150's have less tired interiors and many have 2+2 seating which is better suited to modern needs.

So yes, let's have em.

I can’t see GWR letting go of the 150s given that they have been pretty much holding the west fleet together for some years now.

The problem on GWR is the west was already fairly stretched before they let the HSTs go, then on top of that the Turbo fleets have been running into issues, and the 175s have so far not pulled their weight at all and don’t seem to be showing much immediate sign of doing so.

Also worth noting that Northern has had new DMUs in recent years, and is also getting the 350/2s.

I’d say GWR’s need is greater.

In an ideal world, and in the absence of new trains, the ex TFW 150s would go to one or other, however it’s understandable that no one wants to pay for life-extension works. In any case this ship has at least partly sailed given many have already been scrapped, though ISTR reading that there aren’t any immediate plans to scrap any more?

 

[LittleGidder]

150's aren't everyone's favourite units, however if the GW ones were sent up here, they could all be reformed into 3 carriage sets more suited to modern needs.

Also worth noting that the GW 150's have less tired interiors and many have 2+2 seating which is better suited to modern needs.

So yes, let's have em.

Haha yes, can’t stand the 3+2 Northern 150 layout, 2+2 is more like it

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Yesterday at 09:35 ==

I can’t see GWR letting go of the 150s given that they have been pretty much holding the west fleet together for some years now.

The problem on GWR is the west was already fairly stretched before they let the HSTs go, then on top of that the Turbo fleets have been running into issues, and the 175s have so far not pulled their weight at all and don’t seem to be showing much immediate sign of doing so.

Also worth noting that Northern has had new DMUs in recent years, and is also getting the 350/2s.

I’d say GWR’s need is greater.

In an ideal world, and in the absence of new trains, the ex TFW 150s would go to one or other, however it’s understandable that no one wants to pay for life-extension works. In any case this ship has at least partly sailed given many have already been scrapped, though ISTR reading that there aren’t any immediate plans to scrap any more?

Thing is that the 350s aren’t really a huge thing, I suppose that the 323s do really need replacing but at the same time we are getting the same train count in 350s as current 323s apparently so won’t really make a difference.

 

[yorksrob]

I can’t see GWR letting go of the 150s given that they have been pretty much holding the west fleet together for some years now.

The problem on GWR is the west was already fairly stretched before they let the HSTs go, then on top of that the Turbo fleets have been running into issues, and the 175s have so far not pulled their weight at all and don’t seem to be showing much immediate sign of doing so.

Also worth noting that Northern has had new DMUs in recent years, and is also getting the 350/2s.

I’d say GWR’s need is greater.

In an ideal world, and in the absence of new trains, the ex TFW 150s would go to one or other, however it’s understandable that no one wants to pay for life-extension works. In any case this ship has at least partly sailed given many have already been scrapped, though ISTR reading that there aren’t any immediate plans to scrap any more?

I think with the DMU shortage, someone needs to life extend existing units around the network. There have been a lot of new built trains in the last ten years, but too much scrappage, hence why we always have a shortage (the Skegness line thread is another illustration of this).

 

[Bletchleyite]

I think with the DMU shortage, someone needs to life extend existing units around the network. There have been a lot of new built trains in the last ten years, but too much scrappage, hence why we always have a shortage (the Skegness line thread is another illustration of this).

Skeggy mostly needs added capacity at times of year when commuting is well down. The inability to send something longer down that way e.g. 5 car mainline units is more to do with the calamity that is the Class 810 introduction than anything else.

 

[ENC Rail]

What's the situation like in Scotland? Could ScotRail spare a few 156s, 158s or 170s for GWR and Northern?