Could GBR have a flagship train/project/gimmick?

[brad465]

The HST/Intercity 125 was essentially British Rail's flagship train and, for something done on a shoestring budget, a resounding success. Suddenly recalling this earlier made me wonder if GBR should look at having its own flagship project that greatly improves rail travel, and what would realistically be possible?

If it were to be a new train, maybe a successful replacement to the Sprinter family would do the job, as these are up for replacement, several operators use them and are seeking to replace them (inc. Northern and GWR). To market them, they could be sold as being much more capacious, comfortable and/or powerful, particularly if they're BEMUs. The IET family is too new for a new Intercity equivalent to be pursued anytime soon.

Other possibilities could be a particular new type of fare/fare structure that is much more appealing, or a particular project that draws in a lot of patronage (ordinarily I'd have gone for HS2 for this, but the shambolic way it's been handled has ruled that out).

Whatever it is, I hope the marketing team make sure whoever advertises it doesn't turn out to be a wrong-un.

 

[The Ham]

The direct answer to the headline question is yes.

However, it may well be 5-10 years (much as the HST's were after the launch of BR) before such a project is started.

To start with it needs to focus on delivering a boring, predictable, reliable railway.

In 40 to 60 years time there could be a number of things which people look back at as being the key projects.

BR had several which are often talked about on here (and probably more that I've forgotten):
- ECML electrification
- Sprinters
- Pacers
- HST's/Mark 4's
- removal of mainline steam trains
- closure of lines

What they could be we probably couldn't guess, however some of the following could be contenders:
- MML electrification
- battery trains
- hydrogen trains
- delivery of HS2 trains
- removal of mainline diesel trains
- building of Northern Powerhouse Rail

Even the replacements of the 80x's could make the list as whilst they have only recently been delivered, but for someone looking back from 2075 the 80x's may well have been replaced 15 to 20 years earlier.

Of course there's could be something which we just aren't aware of yet.

 

[ac6000cw]

However, it may well be 5-10 years (much as the HST's were after the launch of BR) before such a project is started.

It was more than 25 years after nationalisation in 1948 (and the creation of the British Railways brand) before the first HSTs entered service, and more than 20 years before the project started.The APT was the 1960s 'white heat of technology' era train project.

The 1960s southern WCML electrification and modernisation was probably its most significant early 'flagship' project in terms of publicity, operational and revenue benefits. Replacing all the old steam trains with brand new DMUs in the 1950s and early 1960s on local and secondary services was also very significant in terms of widespread visible modernisation.

 

[irish_rail]

New seats in the 80x fleet and paint them all into one consistent livery, countrywide (something along the lines of Intercity) and hey presto you have a national intercity fleet, that could in time become loved (definitely with new better seats though!)

 

[Dr Hoo]

If the OP is looking for a ‘gimmick’ how about a cute little family of promotional puppets (a bit like LNER’s Eleanor). No risk of associating with a wrong in.

They could be called the Heebie Gee Bee Arr-ies and have a mixture of fur colours, etc.

 

[AlastairFraser]

Other possibilities could be a particular new type of fare/fare structure that is much more appealing

Perhaps zonal fare systems for each region (similar to Project Oval - based on contactless cards and smartcards)would be a decent idea to reduce the complexity of the railway fare systems for infrequent users and boost its reputation.

The zones wouldn't apply when crossing regional boundaries and the existing set of tickets would stay available for sale (including Railcards), but a zonal system for simple adult singles and returns initially would be a great way to simplify travel.

 

[Gloster]

Just get the trains to run on time.

 

[Magdalia]

I expect some sort of digital retail offer to harvest a lot of marketing data.

 

[Sorcerer]

Even though it won't be the predominant train running on the network, HS2 gives GBR the opportunity to unveil the trains as their new flagship fleet in similar fashion to SNCF with their TGV, Deutsche Bahn with their ICE, and Trenitalia with their Frecciarossa 1000. Unfortunately though it won't be quite as extensive or iconic but such is the nature of our railways right now.

 

[Brubulus]

Even though it won't be the predominant train running on the network, HS2 gives GBR the opportunity to unveil the trains as their new flagship fleet in similar fashion to SNCF with their TGV, Deutsche Bahn with their ICE, and Trenitalia with their Frecciarossa 1000. Unfortunately though it won't be quite as extensive or iconic but such is the nature of our railways right now.

Everyone will love HS2 and abandon their opposition the moment it opens, if the Elizabeth line is anything to go by. Maybe the fleet could be rolled out as the Intercity 225, in mph this time!

 

[JonathanH]

I expect some sort of digital retail offer to harvest a lot of marketing data.

Does the TOC data not just transfer across?

 

[Sorcerer]

Everyone will love HS2 and abandon their opposition the moment it opens, if the Elizabeth line is anything to go by. Maybe the fleet could be rolled out as the Intercity 225, in mph this time!

I agree on the first bit about loving HS2 once it's completed, but GBR should try to be something new and fit for a railway of the future, so using something like InterCity 225 and using mph would be too reminiscent of the old days, especially for what is going to be a brand new railway. I might start a thread on what the HS2 stock should be nicknamed, but I've said elsewhere that 'Peregrines' would be a good name in my opinion.

 

[Brubulus]

I agree on the first bit about loving HS2 once it's completed, but GBR should try to be something new and fit for a railway of the future, so using something like InterCity 225 and using mph would be too reminiscent of the old days, especially for what is going to be a brand new railway. I might start a thread on what the HS2 stock should be nicknamed, but I've said elsewhere that 'Peregrines' would be a good name in my opinion.

Or the Intercity 360, but either way I think it should be linked back to the past achievements of the railway, and for the HS2 service to be seen as the natural successor to the Intercity 125 that revolutionised intercity rail travel.

 

[Sorcerer]

Or the Intercity 360, but either way I think it should be linked back to the past achievements of the railway, and for the HS2 service to be seen as the natural successor to the Intercity 125 that revolutionised intercity rail travel.

I suppose that's a fair reason, especially when I've suggested naming a flagship train after a bird not too unlike the InterCity Swallow. InterCity Peregrine has a nice ring to it as well.

 

[dmncf]

For a gimmick, GBRX is difficult to beat.

 

[Zomboid]

I might start a thread on what the HS2 stock should be nicknamed, but I've said elsewhere that 'Peregrines' would be a good name in my opinion.

I like the idea of a bird theme.
I'd use it like the service names on Shinkansen (Hikari, Nozomi, Kodama etc), though adapted a bit.
The IC Peregrine service would be the Birmingham trains, and other birds associated with the destination could be used for other services - eg (Golden) Eagle or Osprey for Scotland, and something characteristically Peak District for Manchester.

 

[Dr Hoo]

I like the idea of a bird theme.
I'd use it like the service names on Shinkansen (Hikari, Nozomi, Kodama etc), though adapted a bit.
The IC Peregrine service would be the Birmingham trains, and other birds associated with the destination could be used for other services - eg (Golden) Eagle or Osprey for Scotland, and something characteristically Peak District for Manchester.

Trains (from London) to Manchester don’t go through the Peak District any more. They’re welcome to the excessive number of pigeons, jackdaws and magpies that we seem to have in the Hope Valley though.

 

[Zomboid]

No, but Manchester is next to the peak district. I imagine that the birds most associated with the city will be pigeons and seagulls, which don't have the necessary romance to name a train service after.

 

[vuzzeho]

I would say the HS2 stock could be a big flagship project for GBR. However, there are others that could work.
1. HS2 fleet
2. Battery Sprinter/Networker replacement (GBR's own tech could come into this - they'll own the rights to Vivarail's fast charge tech soon enough!)
3. GBR Regional Eurostar plan and European services (okay this one's more a personal hope)
4. Big InterCity stock rationalisation - refurb of AT300s to a standard interior
5. Establishment of GBREL

 

[Sorcerer]

I like the idea of a bird theme.
I'd use it like the service names on Shinkansen (Hikari, Nozomi, Kodama etc), though adapted a bit.
The IC Peregrine service would be the Birmingham trains, and other birds associated with the destination could be used for other services - eg (Golden) Eagle or Osprey for Scotland, and something characteristically Peak District for Manchester.

Interestingly I thought to name them the Peregrines for the trains themselves because they will be the fastest trains in the UK much like how the Peregrine Falcon is the fastest bird in the world (well, sort of), and because they can be found in all three devolved nations of Britain, particularly the north where HS2 services will serve. If I were to use bird themes across services though I would've done it by speed rather than regional association, but I can't argue that wouldn't be just as good in any case.

 

[eldomtom2]

BR had several which are often talked about on here (and probably more that I've forgotten):
- ECML electrification
- Sprinters
- Pacers
- HST's/Mark 4's
- removal of mainline steam trains
- closure of lines

Of course your list highlights that what people and organisations are associated with is not wholly under their control. BR of course would not want to be remembered by Beeching, Pacers, and the British Rail sandwich, but remembered by them it is.

 

[styles]

Hourly service from London to Altnabreac.

 

[The Ham]

Hourly service from London to Altnabreac.

That's the problem with this country, lack of ambition, it should say least be 2tph!

 

[Magdalia]

Does the TOC data not just transfer across?

I don't know, but, either way, the launch is an opportunity to get more, especially from people who haven't used the train before.

 

[Sad Sprinter]

Surely HS2 is the gimmick? I mean it falls down though because it won't be a domestically produced train, the project is such a tarnished brand and it was started way before GBR.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 13 Jun 2025 ==

Hourly service from London to Altnabreac.

Yeah but what London terminus? I'm not interested unless its from a reopened Holborn Viaduct.

 

[AlastairFraser]

Yeah but what London terminus? I'm not interested unless its from a reopened Holborn Viaduct.

Victoria Coach Station obviously (we converted it to a rail station and banished those infernal objects to hell).

 

[Sad Sprinter]

Victoria Coach Station obviously (we converted it to a rail station and banished those infernal objects to hell).

Sold!

 

[AlastairFraser]

Sold!

 

[Yew]

Surely HS2 is the gimmick? I mean it falls down though because it won't be a domestically produced train, the project is such a tarnished brand and it was started way before GBR.

The Pendolinos were made abroad, and the WCML upgrades were at best a debacle, yet now are generally regarded as a success.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 13 Jun 2025 ==

2. Battery Sprinter/Networker replacement (GBR's own tech could come into this - they'll own the rights to Vivarail's fast charge tech soon enough!)

I think my money would be on this one, a big shot in the arm to the regions.

5. Establishment of GBREL

I don't think there's any policy for that - but equally I could see it happening accidentally if one of the big rolling stock manufacturers looks at closing down some works in the UK.

 

[JLH4AC]

GBR flagship projects besides the obvious ones that come GBR being set up (I would include HS2 in this as GBR will just be taking over operating after HS2 LTD finishes the project.) should be the replacement of DMUs with BMUs, refurbishment/refit of the modern electric/bi-mode rolling stock (IETs, Aventras, and FLIRTs) to an improved and more uniform standard, in conjunction with the Combined authorities and devolved national governments roll out contactless capabilities to more stations across GB, and cost saving modernisations such as the replacement of the remain manned crossings, further consolidation of signal boxes into ROCs, electrification of heavily used lines and replacement of unreliable legacy equipment (Ideally with provisions to provide legacy equipment to heritage railways as museum pieces or reinstalled on their rail lines). Another flagship project for GBR could be to rebrand DRS (Likely some like Rail Express Services) and transfer ownership to GBR, and expand its operations focusing on operations where direct competition from major freight operators is limited, such as in high-speed freight and parcel services.