Could FGW occasionally run a longer HST?

[Nicholas43]

According to post #42 in this thread
http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=28509&page=3
a 2+10 HST is possible. And, to judge from the Luxulyan incident, it isn't that difficult to play with the couplings.
So, at a moment (if there are any?) when FGW has a spare set, can they, in principle, add a carriage or two to a working expected to be over-crowded? Could a lengthened set keep more or less to time?
Or, in practice, are such operations just too difficult on the modern railway?

 

[MCR247]

Well if you did that, you'd then have 1 set out of service as it would be 1/2 coaches down

 

[LexyBoy]

Reassembling a set isn't a trivial operation so the set would have to remain in that formation semi-permanently. This would then mean that it would further complicate diagramming as that set would need to be assigned to the correct route, rather than being free to run to any old destination. (My understanding as an interested non-railwayman anyway).

If they had a spare HST it be easier and better to run it as an extra service or extended service (e.g. extend a Bristol to Taunton, or a Plymouth to Penzance) anyway?

 

[jopsuk]

I'm reasonably sure (though I wasn't paying too close attention as I was sailing) that when I was down in devon recently I saw a set with a TGS at both ends (no pink door next to the power car).

Anyway, surely there would be problems with longer sets- platform lengths, power (acceleration) etc? Isn't this why the Great Western, Cross Country and MML sets are shorter than the East Coast ones?

 

[Flamingo]

In the summer at weekends we run a 2+9, with two Coach A TGS's, for the extra luggage going down to Cornwall. However, the second TGS carriage is not for passenger use. I can't rem

Also, sometimes an extra carriage gets slotted into a set to get it to another depot, depending on where it is in the set it may or may not be locked out of use. If it is inserted the "other" side of coach A "TGS", then it must be locked out of use as there is no through path.

I've never seen or heard of a 2+10. It would be a nightmare to work as a guard, as it would mean the use of SDO at most platforms, and the acceleration would be awful, so it's running time could be significantly lengthened.

 

[Nicholas43]

If they had a spare HST [wouldn't] it be easier and better to run it as an extra service or extended service (e.g. extend a Bristol to Taunton, or a Plymouth to Penzance) anyway?

Wouldn't it take a year or two to negotiate an additional path? Or does FGW already 'own' some spare paths?

 

[455driver]

In the summer at weekends we run a 2+9, with two Coach A TGS's, for the extra luggage going down to Cornwall. However, the second TGS carriage is not for passenger use.

The second TGS is coupled between the PC and coach H, it is labelled as coach X.

Also, sometimes an extra carriage gets slotted into a set to get it to another depot, depending on where it is in the set it may or may not be locked out of use. If it is inserted the "other" side of coach A "TGS", then it must be locked out of use as there is no through path.

When a coach is being moved in this way it is always locked OOU.

I've never seen or heard of a 2+10. It would be a nightmare to work as a guard, as it would mean the use of SDO at most platforms, and the acceleration would be awful, so it's running time could be significantly lengthened.

Agreed, it would be an operational nightmare.

 

[Flamingo]

When a coach is being moved in this way it is always locked OOU

I have seen a coach inserted the other side of coach H and in use. I wasn't working the train, though, so I didn't know the details, I was just hitching a ride.

 

[TEW]

There was a 2+9 out with an extra normal standard class coach last year on a Penzance-London train when a group booking booked out a large proportion of the train. Seen extra FC coaches added for group bookings as well. Don't know if it still is, but there was a set in the 2+7 formation with a micro-buffet but with an extra standard class coach added, making a 2+8 formation.
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Wouldn't it take a year or two to negotiate an additional path? Or does FGW already 'own' some spare paths?

There are a number of paths FGW use for days of increased demand. Bank holiday Mondays usually see two additional Penzance-London trains, one additional Plymouth-London train and a Taunton terminator extended to Paignton, forming an additional Paignton-London train. There is also the option for FGW to run the summer timetable on winter Bank Holidays giving an extra Penzance-London extended from Plymouth in each direction and a Newquay HST service.

 

[jopsuk]

If they could get hold of the extra coaches, would there be any operational issue for FGW in making all their sets 2+8 (though still with the "High density" and "Long distance" layout variants)?

 

[TEW]

They used to have all 2+8 sets, until they converted some standard coaches to micro buffets in 2009 allowing buffets to go off lease. Would just leave three types of HST, low density with full buffet and restaurant facilities, high density with full buffet but not necessarily restaurant facilities and high density with micro buffet.

 

[The Planner]

A 2+10 is suprisingly slower than a 2+8 over longer distances and it would have quite a significant impact over steep sections.

 

[IanXC]

They used to have all 2+8 sets, until they converted some standard coaches to micro buffets in 2009 allowing buffets to go off lease. Would just leave three types of HST, low density with full buffet and restaurant facilities, high density with full buffet but not necessarily restaurant facilities and high density with micro buffet.

There is a tender out at the moment, part of which is the conversion of various Mk3 stock into TSOs in order to extend all the sets back to 2+8.

 

[43167]

As has been mentioned, 2+9's have worked on the Newquay branch in the summer, with an extra TGS for the luggage.

Cant help wondering if when there were so many mk3 sleepers going spare, if some could have been converted to luggage vans with shutter doors in 1/3rd & 2/3rd down the bodyside. Surely that would have made loading and unloading easer.

 

[The Planner]

There are a number of paths FGW use for days of increased demand. Bank holiday Mondays usually see two additional Penzance-London trains, one additional Plymouth-London train and a Taunton terminator extended to Paignton, forming an additional Paignton-London train. There is also the option for FGW to run the summer timetable on winter Bank Holidays giving an extra Penzance-London extended from Plymouth in each direction and a Newquay HST service.

Whilst the Bank Holiday paths could sit in the WTT the winter bank holiday options would be purely STP and would be bid in that manner.

 

[Flamingo]

If they could get hold of the extra coaches, would there be any operational issue for FGW in making all their sets 2+8 (though still with the "High density" and "Long distance" layout variants)?

The idea of converting some sets to 2+7 was to allow for faster acceleration to line speed and a greater ability to make up time and reduce delays on the "shorter" HST routes.

Not having to haul a heavy buffet car (which lets face it, only has approx 20 1st class seats in it), makes a big difference, and is really noticeable over a Pad - Cardiff or a Pad - Bristol run.