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Could East-West Rail (EWR) be electrified?

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Orac

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It makes no sense to electrify a two-coach half-hourly Oxford to MK shuttle service, which could switch to battery running as soon as Oxford-Didcot is electrified. The Bedford-Bletchley shuttle could also run on batteries.
Therefore, it all depends on whether or not the full line to Cambridge actually gets built.
 
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zwk500

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It makes no sense to electrify a two-coach half-hourly Oxford to MK shuttle service, which could switch to battery running as soon as Oxford-Didcot is electrified. The Bedford-Bletchley shuttle could also run on batteries.
Therefore, it all depends on whether or not the full line to Cambridge actually gets built.
I think even if Bedford Cambridge doesn't get built, Oxford to MK as OLE still makes sense once Didcot to Oxford is done. However it would either need Basingstoke to Reading or Battery units for Bedford (or both) to make the best use of it.
 

Bletchleyite

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It makes no sense to electrify a two-coach half-hourly Oxford to MK shuttle service, which could switch to battery running as soon as Oxford-Didcot is electrified. The Bedford-Bletchley shuttle could also run on batteries.
Therefore, it all depends on whether or not the full line to Cambridge actually gets built.

Lithium batteries are not a be-all. In my view, any railway with an hourly or better service should be electrified.
 

Verulamius

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Electrification of EWRail require Oxford to be electrified.

Before Oxford is electrified you need to consider routes and potential rebuild. Currently Oxford only enables the 2 Oxford to MK trains and not the 2 Oxford to Bedford. This requires decisions on whether the EW trains terminate at Oxford or continue through, and also what is happening to the Cowley branch.

Hence the electrification of EWRail is linked up to Oxford electrification and probably also the Chilterns line.
 

zwk500

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Lithium batteries are not a be-all. In my view, any railway with an hourly or better service should be electrified.
I think hourly is still borderline. Half hourly certainly, but if you had a relatively short spur, I might look at batteries first. So I'd say Aylesbury should be battery operated even if the whole Oxford to Bedford route is wired.

But then I also think every EMU should have a 20ish mile range emergency battery underneath it anyway, for operational reasons to prevent trains being trapped for hours on end.
 

Bletchleyite

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I think hourly is still borderline. Half hourly certainly, but if you had a relatively short spur, I might look at batteries first. So I'd say Aylesbury should be battery operated even if the whole Oxford to Bedford route is wired.

No, I would wire it, the added cost would be small.

But then I also think every EMU should have a 20ish mile range emergency battery underneath it anyway, for operational reasons to prevent trains being trapped for hours on end.

I agree with that but it could be much smaller, and potentially even lead acid if cheaper and more environmentally friendly. 20 miles at 20mph with emergency lighting, toilets and ventilation would probably be possible with a battery the size of those fitted to electric buses for a full length 9 car 80x, say.
 

zwk500

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No, I would wire it, the added cost would be small.
I wouldn't unless it was part of a serious intent to wire the Chiltern.
I agree with that but it could be much smaller, and potentially even lead acid if cheaper and more environmentally friendly. 20 miles at 20mph with emergency lighting, toilets and ventilation would probably be possible with a battery the size of those fitted to electric buses for a full length 9 car 80x, say.
Indeed. Although with a 4 car desiro type unit even 20 miles at 60mph should be viable with a relatively cheap set of cells.
 

A0

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I agree with that but it could be much smaller, and potentially even lead acid if cheaper and more environmentally friendly.

The problem with lead acid is weight - they weigh double what a lithium battery does. And weight is a consideration.
 

cle

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If Didcot-Oxford was wired (and Oxford station rebuilt) - then it could take over the shuttle at least once per hour, and terminate at Didcot.

The logical integration would be with Chiltern - which would massively benefit from wiring at least Oxford to London. That’s 4tph minimum and some good time savings.

Marston may as well wait for closures to consolidate stations. I don’t see east of Bletchley as being too important until the wires are done and Bedford is ready too.
 

zwk500

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If Didcot-Oxford was wired (and Oxford station rebuilt) - then it could take over the shuttle at least once per hour, and terminate at Didcot.
Don't forget the IETs.
The logical integration would be with Chiltern - which would massively benefit from wiring at least Oxford to London. That’s 4tph minimum and some good time savings.
Electrification of Chiltern would be advantageous, but it doesn't really change the calculations for doing EWR
Marston may as well wait for closures to consolidate stations. I don’t see east of Bletchley as being too important until the wires are done and Bedford is ready too.
Agree, and even afterwards it may not make sense to wire the Marston Vale if a decent battery unit can be supplied. Oxford-Bedford could charge from Bletchley to Oxford and Back, and Bletchley-Bedford services could charge in the platforms during the turnround at either end. There's so little through traffic on the route not wiring it wouldn't be a problem. It'd be better if it was wired properly, but I could understand if it wasn't.
 

Mikey C

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Electrification of Chiltern would be advantageous, but it doesn't really change the calculations for doing EWR
If the Chiltern main line was electrified, then you'd want to do Bicester Village to Oxford as well, which is a chunk of EWR. And I'm sure there would be scope for shared electrical infrastructure at Bicester etc
 

zwk500

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If the Chiltern main line was electrified, then you'd want to do Bicester Village to Oxford as well, which is a chunk of EWR. And I'm sure there would be scope for shared electrical infrastructure at Bicester etc
Yes but electrification of the Chiltern line is only beneficial if it gets all the way into London (or you have battery-EMUs). We're going to be waiting for an awful long time before any serious design work is done on Chiltern. EWR is likely to be targeted Politically as a 'quick win' at some point in the next 5-10 years.
 

Mikey C

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Yes but electrification of the Chiltern line is only beneficial if it gets all the way into London (or you have battery-EMUs). We're going to be waiting for an awful long time before any serious design work is done on Chiltern. EWR is likely to be targeted Politically as a 'quick win' at some point in the next 5-10 years.
DMUs chugging through London - even with hydroflex they'll still be operating within the London boundaries in DMU mode - would surely be politically be more awkward than a route running through Bucks and Oxfordshire
 

zwk500

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DMUs chugging through London - even with hydroflex they'll still be operating within the London boundaries in DMU mode - would surely be politically be more awkward than a route running through Bucks and Oxfordshire
It's about what can be achieved (or at least started) before the next election. Many bigger political wins are discarded for fear of handing the other side an open goal. And the political goal is to electrify lines, not eliminate DMUs, which is subtly different.
 

cle

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If the Chiltern main line was electrified, then you'd want to do Bicester Village to Oxford as well, which is a chunk of EWR. And I'm sure there would be scope for shared electrical infrastructure at Bicester etc
Yep I was assuming that Didcot/Oxford to Bletchley would be wired sooner than Marylebone to Bicester/Oxford. But of course, the latter would probably bump up the list if it fed into an already-wired Bicester Town. Chiltern doesn't really hit any wires, whereas EWR flows into both Bletchley/WCML and Bedford.

Oxford of course is contingent on the station, but will surely, surely happen up from Didcot in tandem with station possessions and closures (famous last words)
 
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