Could Class 58s return to mainline duties?

[tjlrailblue]

58023 is going to leicester depot for possible return to mainline use

could be the start of something if ukrl could buy some other 58s to create a small fleet of them

 

[E_Reeves]

Going where from and by rail or road?

 

[delt1c]

Considering they were not as sure footed as the 56's seems strange.

 

[Ash Bridge]

Considering they were not as sure footed as the 56's seems strange.

Could they be considering if it's feasible to re-engineer a number in a similar manner to the 56s that are currently at Stoke perhaps?

 

[CosherB]

58023 is going to leicester depot for possible return to mainline use

could be the start of something if ukrl could buy some other 58s to create a small fleet of them

And therein is the problem - why would DBC sell them?

 

[mackeral1234]

And therein is the problem - why would DBC sell them?

Like DBS sold the Class 60 to Colas as they have no use for them. Better to get money for them instead of scrap value or to leave them to rust away.

 

[delt1c]

Could they be considering if it's feasible to re-engineer a number in a similar manner to the 56s that are currently at Stoke perhaps?

Was thinking that, possibly re engined similair to the class "69" project.

 

[DBS92042]

Was thinking that, possibly re engined similair to the class "69" project.

I could be wrong but I don't think this is likely as I believe 58023 is preserved so will presumably run with its current engine.

 

[delt1c]

I could be wrong but I don't think this is likely as I believe 58023 is preserved so will presumably run with its current engine.

If that is the case , would nice if it could be ETH fitted for passenger work

 

[CosherB]

If that is the case , would nice if it could be ETH fitted for passenger work

Comedy post of the day!

 

[Geeves]

You would imagine if someone was going to do something with the class 58s they would have done it by now. What sort of work would they do that cannot be performed by anything that is currently running? Its not like they can just fix them up and get them on a Merry go round train around the Nottinghamshire coal fields.

 

[CosherB]

Precisely. Plus there are dozens of 60s at Toton that are far better locos - if DBC can be persuaded to sell.

 

[delt1c]

Comedy post of the day!

Not comedy, has been done in the past

 

[6Gman]

If that is the case , would nice if it could be ETH fitted for passenger work

Would they be compatible with 442s ?

 

[randyrippley]

Precisely. Plus there are dozens of 60s at Toton that are far better locos - if DBC can be persuaded to sell.

60s may be technically the better loco design, but given the choice of rebuilding / resurrecting a loco with a simple massive rigid solebar/chassis design with a non-structural body, or a stressed skin design with all the potential for corrosion and collapse, I'd go for the solebar design of the 58 every time.
Easier to work on, and far less likely to need expensive structural repairs - and less likely to have a bent frame

 

[xotGD]

If that is the case , would nice if it could be ETH fitted for passenger work

They didn't need ETH to work the Birmingham - Nuneaton drags back in the day...

 

[delt1c]

They didn't need ETH to work the Birmingham - Nuneaton drags back in the day...

Nor did 20's, no heat 25's, 47'3 and more. But with ETH would make it more versatile for specials. After all even BR had a plan to convert some freight locos and add ETH for cross country services

 

[Ash Bridge]

Nor did 20's, no heat 25's, 47'3 and more. But with ETH would make it more versatile for specials. After all even BR had a plan to convert some freight locos and add ETH for cross country services

Yep, some 56s was it not?

 

[delt1c]

Yep, some 56s was it not?

Correct Mr A. But I reckon the younger fraternity wouldn’t have heard of that plan.

 

[43096]

But with ETH would make it more versatile for specials.

Really? Do you have any idea how much ETH conversion would cost? And the revenue that would result from having it? It's a total non-starter. Pie in the sky fantasy stuff.

 

[delt1c]

Really? Do you have any idea how much ETH conversion would cost? And the revenue that would result from having it? It's a total non-starter. Pie in the sky fantasy stuff.

Please enlighten us as to the cost and percentage cost of return to mainline standard. What is the total cost of both

 

[43096]

Please enlighten us as to the cost and percentage cost of return to mainline standard. What is the total cost of both

I take it that you have no idea on the cost, then!

I'm certainly not going to bother looking up detailed costs for some crackpot idea, but given that fitment of mandatory systems such as OTMR, GSM-R and TPWS will be well north of £100k, if you want to add in ETH as well, then £500k+ would be needed given you have to design from scratch, buy one-off equipment and get it certified.

 

[Bevan Price]

One advantage of 58s, compared with 60s, was their higher maximum speed - officially 75 mph rather than 60 mph, but in the days before radar speed traps, etc., Class 58 could easily reach nearly 100 mph.

However, they have now been stored for so long that most of them are probably almost "beyond help" - it would possibly be cheaper to buy new 68s rather than to restore 58s to a useable condition.
A pity - they had rather short working lives, and at one time, they were reputed to be the most reliable diesel locos on BR.

 

[Rob F]

I take it that you have no idea on the cost, then!

I'm certainly not going to bother looking up detailed costs for some crackpot idea, but given that fitment of mandatory systems such as OTMR, GSM-R and TPWS will be well north of £100k, if you want to add in ETH as well, then £500k+ would be needed given you have to design from scratch, buy one-off equipment and get it certified.

I hear what you say but remember the endless scoffing of the know it alls to any suggestion that the 442s might find further use. Yet they did.

Is a 58 with ETH, ridiculous as it sounds, any less likely than retractioned 442s, Underground trains with Transit engines or 319s operating away from any electrified line? With the railway as it is, I would not be overly confident of ruling anything out.

 

[gazthomas]

Please enlighten us as to the cost and percentage cost of return to mainline standard. What is the total cost of both

If the charter stock has a diesel generator why worry?

 

[gazthomas]

I take it that you have no idea on the cost, then!

I'm certainly not going to bother looking up detailed costs for some crackpot idea, but given that fitment of mandatory systems such as OTMR, GSM-R and TPWS will be well north of £100k, if you want to add in ETH as well, then £500k+ would be needed given you have to design from scratch, buy one-off equipment and get it certified.

Don't Network Rail have to pay for certification? Or is that not relevant for locos not running immediately before these technologies were introduced?

 

[43096]

I hear what you say but remember the endless scoffing of the know it alls to any suggestion that the 442s might find further use. Yet they did.

Is a 58 with ETH, ridiculous as it sounds, any less likely than retractioned 442s, Underground trains with Transit engines or 319s operating away from any electrified line? With the railway as it is, I would not be overly confident of ruling anything out.

Frankly, it is less likely than those you mention. Just what is the demand for 80mph ETH fitted locos? Virtually none. Never say never, but the idea of ETH fitted 58s becoming reality is about as close to a never as you'll get.

 

[Rob F]

Frankly, it is less likely than those you mention. Just what is the demand for 80mph ETH fitted locos? Virtually none. Never say never, but the idea of ETH fitted 58s becoming reality is about as close to a never as you'll get.

It is obviously less likely than the ones I mentioned as they have already happened, they have a probability of 1, i.e. certainty.