Could Bolton get a better express service?

[Ianno87]

Agreed agreed - was thinking in terms of possible extensions. But then I saw the video just today on HS2 plans for Preston, and those bays are gone. So will need another plan!


Maybe in an even world, it could justify them on population. But given they have been so erratic in provision, I don't think they would be missed, if the core needs (Preston and Manchester, maybe Lancaster or Blackpool) - were met and compensated in place of their removal.

Bolton is a large suburban/outer town - yes it's big but not everywhere has demand for long distance services. It's unfortunately located on a loop, and historical demand will have adapted. Wigan, Preston and/or Manchester do the job heading north and south.

I wouldn't say Bolton is "on a loop" when it is literally between Manchester and Scotland!

 

[cle]

Historically Boston was served as a loop from the WCML from Crewe to Preston, to serve Manchester on through trains to Scotland from the south, using p13/14. That was the loop I was referring to. Now the trains begin at Manchester Airport, that doesn't apply, but demand may have been broken - especially after a few years of electric service via Chat Moss.

Regarding Stockport, unless you went via Styal - it's on both main routes to London and Birmingham. And a railhead for Southern Manchester and environs, I wouldn't say Bolton performed the same role, but rather Warrington and Wigan.

 

[Bevan Price]

I would suggest that Bolton -- and Wigan to some extent - have been sacrificed because there are too many small trains on the Manchester / Scotland services. Even 5 coach 397s will be too small in the post-Covid situation.

3 coach 185s were inadequate for almost everything they were ever used on.
4 coach 350s were also inadequate for all but the quietist of services.
2x4 coach 350s were barely adequate for some of the busier trains.

 

[Philip]

Historically Boston was served as a loop from the WCML from Crewe to Preston, to serve Manchester on through trains to Scotland from the south, using p13/14. That was the loop I was referring to. Now the trains begin at Manchester Airport, that doesn't apply, but demand may have been broken - especially after a few years of electric service via Chat Moss.

Regarding Stockport, unless you went via Styal - it's on both main routes to London and Birmingham. And a railhead for Southern Manchester and environs, I wouldn't say Bolton performed the same role, but rather Warrington and Wigan.

Historically Bolton wasn't on any kind of WCML loop; there was no direct link, short of going the long way round via Denton, between Piccadilly and Bolton until the Windsor link opened in the late 1980s. Before that, there were services to Scotland via Bolton and these originated from Manchester Victoria.

The latter point doesn't make sense I'm sorry.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 12 Nov 2020 ==

I would suggest that Bolton -- and Wigan to some extent - have been sacrificed because there are too many small trains on the Manchester / Scotland services. Even 5 coach 397s will be too small in the post-Covid situation.

3 coach 185s were inadequate for almost everything they were ever used on.
4 coach 350s were also inadequate for all but the quietist of services.
2x4 coach 350s were barely adequate for some of the busier trains.

Perhaps it might be worth setting pick up and set down restrictions at both Bolton and Preston, with strict enforcement? I think Northern's service provision alone is also sufficient for the Manchester-Preston route.