could an exchange programme work between drivers of focs and tocs?

[Zontar]

Could a structured secondment/exchange scheme between TOC and FOC drivers be achieved , and would it be any benefit?
For me it would as it would broaden experience, improve competence, and build a more flexible workforce. Part of me thinkd it would be far too expensive though.

With Great British Railways taking on greater central coordination, could this become more realistic than in today’s fragmented setup?

Potential benefits:

* Better understanding of freight vs passenger operations
* Broader traction/route experience
* Improved judgement and flexibility
* Retention and career development
* Greater network resilience

Key challenges:

* No immediate productivity on new traction/routes
* Heavy instructor and route learning demand
* Cost of lost diagrams during training
* Safety/competence complexity still significant
* Likely need for strong union buy-in and industrial agreement to make it viable in practice

It could be a short-term secondments rather than full exchanges. Restricted competence (limited routes/traction only). Would need strong union engagement/support built in from the start. Central GBR funding to absorb training and abstraction costs

A small pilot cohort could test the water?

Interested in views from ops/training/planning/industrial relations—does centralisation and union cooperation under GBR make this realistic, or are the competence and productivity constraints still too significant?

 

[skyhigh]

GBR isn't taking over freight operations, so I don't really see why freight operators would want to take part in something with considerable costs and little benefit to them.

 

[SynthD]

What is the benefit in broader track knowledge? A passenger train driver that knows the freight lines still cannot use them. ECS maybe, but that’s rare. I don’t see the resilience, retention, flexibility aspects, even if they had the same employer.

The fragmentation you see today is just that drivers have been taught efficiently, with care taken not to waste lesson time on track they’ll never need.

 

[Zontar]

This was part of my question.....would it actually be worth it? On paper yea you'll have more experienced drivers with a wider knowledge and understanding of the railway. But this comes at a cost, and does that cost justify it?

 

[martin2345uk]

Again, why would private FOCs want to sign up for this...?

 

[irish_rail]

This was part of my question.....would it actually be worth it? On paper yea you'll have more experienced drivers with a wider knowledge and understanding of the railway. But this comes at a cost, and does that cost justify it?

You basically have something like this on the Western, with drivers signing a wide range of traction and routes. Plymouth for example sign express trains to London, as well as branch lines to Gunnislake and Newquay, not to mention loco hauled sleeper work. It works well and drivers are very productive. This should be replicated country wide on the passenger side of things, though I see little prospect / point of involving Freight drivers (unless Freight gets nationalised as well perhaps).

 

[whoosh]

There's other TOC's conditions I wouldn't want to be anywhere near, nevermind freight companies.

I'll stick to my own trains and T&Cs thanks!

 

[zwk500]

This was part of my question.....would it actually be worth it? On paper yea you'll have more experienced drivers with a wider knowledge and understanding of the railway. But this comes at a cost, and does that cost justify it?

If the costs are worth it, they do it.
E.g. GTR have been hosting FOC drivers (DB in the video on youtube) as part of ETCS familiarisation, being the only current ECML operator with ETCS in service use. This allows DB Cargo drivers to get see ETCS in action and how it works, so that it's not completely new when their own trains get fitted. It isn't an 'exchange' as such, but an example of knowledge-sharing or collaboration that fits the benefits outlined in Post #1.

 

[Tram Inn SB]

South West Trains crewed the Wessex region Network Rail railhead treatment MPVs for a period some years ago, dedicated links at certain depots I think it was - I don’t know how well it went but it doesn’t happen now.

When TOC hire in drivers from spot hire companies to take units wholly within the operating area and the units their drivers sign (TfW flirts from Cardiff to Holyhead) there isn’t much hope of cross cover for say a XC service out of Bristol to Cheltenham being covered by a GWR crew (subject to crew training).

Hopefully in the fullness of time, locations with more than one depot think Birmingham New St, Manchester Picc, Liverpool Lime Street to name but three will be integrated into a single super depot with links based on local to intercity work with appropriate traction and route knowledge.

But that would require massive restructuring of terms and conditions a minefield which would in the end need a “GBR 2030 contract” for each grade concerned which simply won’t happen.

 

[Tram Inn SB]

If the costs are worth it, they do it.
E.g. GTR have been hosting FOC drivers (DB in the video on youtube) as part of ETCS familiarisation, being the only current ECML operator with ETCS in service use. This allows DB Cargo drivers to get see ETCS in action and how it works, so that it's not completely new when their own trains get fitted. It isn't an 'exchange' as such, but an example of knowledge-sharing or collaboration that fits the benefits outlined in Post #1.

Yes, but that is a DB driver riding with a GTR driver there is no crossover driving.

You do, and have had FOC drivers being hired to undertake ecs shunt moves (London Midland, Euston to Camden with DB I think it was), also DB drivers taking passenger services using London midland 350s from Milton Keynes to Clapham Junction.

Freightliner drivers working passenger TPE Scottish services but that was a temp arrangement before TPE opened their own depots.