Could a European Style / Carnet System Work in the UK?

[whhistle]

From what I understand about domestic European travel, you buy a ticket, validate it and can then travel.
That means you could buy a ticket, keep it for three weeks, then validate and travel.

Seems a little sensible as that stops mistakes from ticket machines on dates, and allows someone to buy a weeks worth of returns, then just validate before travel.

Or have we missed the boat and the closer the contactless comes, there's little point in changing a system that's been in use for decades.

 

[Tim R-T-C]

There have been carnets on some London routes (still available?), problem is that you had to validate in pen and there were frequent times when people either tried to game the system, or were accused of this, for using the wrong pen, or putting in ambiguous digits that could be changed.

There were Saver-strips for years in West Riding (from a Scandinavian model IIRC), where you brought a ticket for 20 journeys and validated in a machine before travel. Again though, people would 'forget' to validate until challenged, or the machines were not functional.

A reliable system on the same principle would be useful - for regular travellers, season tickets and regional passes are best value. But there still isn't a good way in the UK to offer discounts for irregular travellers, who might need to make the same journey many times, but not every day.

 

[30907]

That's true for some tickets in some areas only, typically urban and across all modes, and requires validators left right and centre.

 

[Warwick]

I believe that the French railways have/had a machine on the platform that you had to insert the ticket in to get it date stamped/whatever to validate it before travel.

 

[Moonshot]

Maybe some sort of travel card which is set up in such a way as to generate cashback once a number of journeys have been completed?

 

[najaB]

There have been carnets on some London routes (still available?),

Carnets are also available on many routes in Scotland. Also of the 'fill in the blanks' variety.

ScotRail also have Anytime and Off-Peak tickets available on smart card, activated when you touch the validator/ticket barrier.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I think you're more talking about "compostage" i.e. tickets sold for any date, stamp when you want to use it?

It's a good system in my eyes as it near enough removes ticket re-use if not checked. Trouble is it requires a large infrastructure of stamping machines to be provided.

It's probably easiest to provide it on mobile and other electronic tickets.

 

[jon0844]

At this stage, using a smartcard with tickets pre-loaded and activated on touch in (or simply applying discounts on a PAYG basis as you travel more) would seem like the way to go, to offer flexible travel options for people with the minimum of effort. Far more sensible than introducing a system of marking/stamping a paper ticket that is slowly on its way out.

You may need to put a photo on the card to stop them being shared (the discounts would only apply for a single user) but nothing that couldn't done if there was a desire to do so.

GTR can't change its carnet system because it's not part of the DfT contract, so the DfT has no interest in doing it or paying for it. If that changes, they could switch very easily and do away with a large amount of fraud from carnet tickets.

Given the nature of the ticket operating barriers over and over for three months, effectively operating like a season ticket, for every person given hassle for having done nothing wrong, there are likely many people getting free travel all the time.. and this of course means revenue officers are bound to be all the more suspicious.

In my opinion paper tickets you fill in on the day are not fit for purpose because they encourage fraud, while genuine users are potentially hit with losing the cost of a ticket because they damaged it when trying to write on the date.

 

[30907]

There's some confusion in this thread between carnets (blocks of tickets, Paris Metro style), carnets (multi journey tickets) and tickets bought in advance requiring validating on the day of use. AFAIK the OP was referring to the last of these.

 

[najaB]

Or 'compostage' as described by @Bletchleyite two posts above yours.

 

[jon0844]

Whatever the case, going forward it would be for a smartcard or mobile app system to store tickets and activate as and when. No chance of machines appearing anywhere to stamp paper tickets. That boat has long sailed.

 

[Yew]

The idea seems sound, it's a shame we don't have the ability for ticket barriers to mark tickets, as that would solve the problem in a large number of cases

 

[atraindriver]

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[Spartacus]

My guard colleagues have fairly recently been issued barcode readers for mobile tickets, which make it much easier to see if a ticket has been correctly activated and (more importantly) activate it if it hasn't.
Messroom chat suggests that over 50% of mobile tickets for local journeys (not passing through ticket barriers) being checked on-train have not been activated before boarding, and also that everyone who has a reader has picked up people who have activated and then immediately refunded their tickets to get a free trip. I suspect we may be seeing some fraud prosecutions.

People using mobile ticketing as a way of getting a free journey? Next you'll be telling me the Pope's Catholic!

 

[Bookd]

The French style validation system has worked for ever on trains, buses and trams; the problem here would be that all passengers are assumed to be crooks. Think of the numerous reports of fiddling on London bendibuses and Borismasters when anyone not touching in is accused of cheating when they may have a paper ticket or other sort of pass which means they do not need to do so.
In France most people do seem to validate their tickets as this is normal practice, although I suspect that there may be severe penalties if you did not do so and were caught in a revenue check.