Could 185s be re-engineered to make them for suitable for other routes?

[northwichcat]

One question that keeps coming up is what routes will see 185s after North TPE electrification with the 185s being very powerful.

However, with the 185 fleet being relatively small could they be re-engineered to work with 2 engines instead of 3 and then the spare engines being used for parts to keep them going instead of making a small number of spare parts when things go wrong with them?

 

[43074]

Technically complicated but it could be done, I think.

I would like to see 185s replacing some 158s in the North, post electrification. Their higher power would be useful for routes with steeper gradients such as Copy Pit and the Settle & Carlisle.

 

[Eagle]

One suggestion that keeps coming up on here is that they'd be suitable for use on Edinburgh/Glasgow to Aberdeen/Inverness services, as their power would make light work of the gradients in the Highlands.

 

[DXMachina]

I can see them being borrowed for diversion routes through electrification blockades on the southern region in the future, perhaps

Fast, comfortable, could be a good suit for the established long distance 3rd rail routes

 

[northwichcat]

Technically complicated but it could be done, I think.

I understand the introduction of eco-mode on the 185s means that two engines can be turned off while the train runs on negative gradients.

 

[D365]

I understand the introduction of eco-mode on the 185s means that two engines can be turned off while the train runs on negative gradients.

You've still got the weight and fuel though, if they're going to be run somewhere flatter...

 

[Surreyman]

Was under the impression that post electrification the 185s would be used to run more 6 car services on unelectrified TPE routes.
Probably replace the TPE 170s eventually as well. Heard there was a weight/gauge issue with 185s somewhere, which is why 170s used, has this been resolved?

 

[ainsworth74]

I understand the introduction of eco-mode on the 185s means that two engines can be turned off while the train runs on negative gradients.

It's a bit more widespread than that. In my experience north and east of Leeds 185s seem to run around on two engines apart from when they first pull out of stations. They are ludicrously overpowered to the extent that I'm fairly sure that you could get away with adding a trailer vehicles to the units and it wouldn't impact performance particularly badly.

Also as an aside when I've been in the carriage with the engine turned off I think they give one of the best rides of anything (including Mk3s and 4s). It's seriously good once you get rid of the rumble of the engines.

Was under the impression that post electrification the 185s would be used to run more 6 car services on unelectrified TPE routes.

Well post 2019 hopefully some will become surplus to requirements entirely and even more over the following years (assuming some easy wins get wired such as Hull).

Heard there was a weight/gauge issue with 185s somewhere, which is why 170s used, has this been resolved?

It's a weight issue and unless someone wants to spend millions (possibly more) on stabilising the former mine workings around Selby it's always going to be an issue. That being said it doesn't particularly affect timings through to Hull as their acceleration so outstrips that of 170s they can keep to the same timings even though their top speed is less than 170s through the affected areas.

 

[Goatboy]

I would like to see 185s replacing some 158s in the North, post electrification.

Good idea - but only so we can get the displaced 158's down here, having travelled on both the 158 is a superior train simply by virtue of it's sensible door placement and seperate vestibules between coaches. Mid-mounted doors on anything but commuter trains really annoy me.

 

[route:oxford]

Put them on the Dunblane services when Edinburgh-Glasgow is electrified.

They'll need something powerful to keep out of the way of the electrics.

 

[Jonny]

I understand the introduction of eco-mode on the 185s means that two engines can be turned off while the train runs on negative gradients.

The trouble with that is that, in one of my many trips on a 185, the train has pulled away from a station onto a cant which has been more perceivable than usual as some engines weren't running...

Is it done by GPS or based on train performance "on the day?"

How does it affect the laptop/'phone power points?

 

[ainsworth74]

Is it done by GPS or based on train performance "on the day?"

I believe it's done by GPS but the driver has the option to override and run on all engines if they so wish.

How does it affect the laptop/'phone power points?

As far as I'm aware it has no impact at all as there are still two other engines providing electrical power.

 

[Pumbaa]

There is a bizarre cross-feeding of power on the units, which means that depending on which engine is shut down, aircon and other wizardry isn't available in that carriage. Should the fantasy idea happen, a substantial under-the-floor rewiring would need to take place.

 

[tbtc]

They are ludicrously overpowered to the extent that I'm fairly sure that you could get away with adding a trailer vehicles to the units and it wouldn't impact performance particularly badly

The excuse given for not extending 185s was that a powered fourth carriage would fall foul of emission laws (which had changed shortly after 185s were built?).

But if they are going to be used on flatter routes then an unpowered fourth coach could work (bi-mode IEP can cope with three diesel engines for five coaches after all).

(subject to the point Pumbaa raises about needing to rewire them etc)

 

[northwichcat]

There is a bizarre cross-feeding of power on the units, which means that depending on which engine is shut down, aircon and other wizardry isn't available in that carriage. Should the fantasy idea happen, a substantial under-the-floor rewiring would need to take place.

I wonder if that relates to why the air conditioning seems to be set to be cooler on the 185s compared to the 350s.

Switch off the air conditioning in a carriage full of people without windows on a sunny day and the temperature would rise quite quickly.

I once stayed at an Italian hotel where you had to put your swipe card key in a slot in the room for anything electrical to operate (including the air conditioning) so everything electrical turned off within a couple of minutes of leaving the room. The room temperature could rise from 23oC to 26oC if the room was vacated for a short period of time. I imagine a train carriage full of people could have a similar effect to this if the air conditioning was deactivated.