Cotswold Line - 10-car IETs

[Peter C]

I had a thought this morning: have any 10-car IET services worked along the Cotswold Line (Oxford - Hereford) since their introduction? I did a quick search on the forums just now and couldn't find anything mentioning an instance of this happening, but upon looking on RealTime Trains (which I know occasionally has issues and is only as good as the information given it), there seems to have been a 10-car service between Hereford and London Paddington this morning: https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:L87348/2022-03-16/detailed#allox_id=0
(It's the 1P02 0523 Hereford - London Paddington, apparently operated with 802012 + 802016)

I've not paid an awful lot of attention to the specifics of my local railway scene for the past few months, so I don't know if this has happened before, or if this could happen (or even if this happened today). I'd be interested to hear from anyone if they knew if it'd happened before! Like I say, I've done what was admittedly quite a quick search on the forums, and I've not enough technical knowledge or anything like that to know how practical or impractical this would be, so any explanations would be lovely.

Thanks

-Peter

 

[route101]

Not seen any on that line. Last time I was at Hereford it was a 9 car set.

 

[SuperLuke2334]

I'm sure it's quite possible to happen, however I don't know whether one of the units would be locked out of use due to platform lengths and the lack of gangways. Someone within the industry would have to answer that one.

 

[Doctor Fegg]

As a regular passenger on the line I've never seen a 10-car formation, but that doesn't mean it hasn't happened!

Part of the rationale of the platform lengthening project of 2018 was to make it more practical for 5+5 IETs to call, I believe. So there shouldn't be any issue with having to lock a set out of use.

 

[Techniquest]

10 car sets would not normally fit in Hereford on any platform. You could get away with it on the 0523 as I believe that comes in empty from Stoke Gifford (0448, if that exists now, does too, 0643 should do. Or maybe that one stables overnight?) so with a coach locked out of use at the back you could just about get away with a 10 car on platform 3. 9 car sets barely fit on the other platforms, so it would be very unusual.

I've never seen it myself, and I have extreme doubts as to a pair of 802s actually working out of Hereford. I'd love to see evidence of it actually happening though!

 

[irish_rail]

10 car sets don't fit on most platforms in Cornwall but it isn't an issue. The SDO only unlocks the carriages that are platformed. It isn't an issue in Cornwall, and shouldn't be on the cotswold line. However, the poorer quality of first class on the 5 car sets compared to the 9 car sets is probably the reason you won't see 10 car trains on the cotswold line and they will instead be inflicted on the intercity routes to the south west instead......

 

[class ep-09]

10 car sets would not normally fit in Hereford on any platform. You could get away with it on the 0523 as I believe that comes in empty from Stoke Gifford (0448, if that exists now, does too, 0643 should do. Or maybe that one stables overnight?) so with a coach locked out of use at the back you could just about get away with a 10 car on platform 3. 9 car sets barely fit on the other platforms, so it would be very unusual.

I've never seen it myself, and I have extreme doubts as to a pair of 802s actually working out of Hereford. I'd love to see evidence of it actually happening though!

Both 9 and 10 cars 800 do not fit in to any of the platforms at Hereford.
SDO allows opening of the correct number of doors - no need to lock out any of them that are not on the platform.

 

[FGW_DID]

1P02 is part if an 800 (9 car) diagram. I did check GENIUS yesterday and it was showing 2x 802 5 cars allocated, however both were showing as position 1 and one of the 802s had an unusual diagram number.
Unless someone actually saw this 10 car, I suspect that it was only a 5 car and that for some reason one unit has had a new schedule created for it, hence the strange diagram number but the unit on the original diagram hasn’t been de-allocated.

I would have to double check the diagrams but 99.9% sure the Cotswolds is only 5 or 9 car.

 

[JN114]

1P02 is part if an 800 (9 car) diagram. I did check GENIUS yesterday and it was showing 2x 802 5 cars allocated, however both were showing as position 1 and one of the 802s had an unusual diagram number.
Unless someone actually saw this 10 car, I suspect that it was only a 5 car and that for some reason one unit has had a new schedule created for it, hence the strange diagram number but the unit on the original diagram hasn’t been de-allocated.

I would have to double check the diagrams but 99.9% sure the Cotswolds is only 5 or 9 car.

If it were a 10 vice 9, then the second unit would have an unusual (typically 4-digit 9xxx) diagram number; as the controller would have to “create” a diagram in Integrale for the 2nd unit. Given how those additional diagrams are usually created; it’s entirely believable that the position indicators would be wrong.

I can find out for definite tonight whether it was a 5 or a 10.

 

[Techniquest]

Both 9 and 10 cars 800 do not fit in to any of the platforms at Hereford.
SDO allows opening of the correct number of doors - no need to lock out any of them that are not on the platform.

I had a hunch 9ers didn't fit properly in Hereford, it's been a while since I last got on one there, clearly my memory was not behaving last night!

I have to confess I forgot about SDO Not having a good 24 hours am I?

 

[FGW_DID]

If it were a 10 vice 9, then the second unit would have an unusual (typically 4-digit 9xxx) diagram number; as the controller would have to “create” a diagram in Integrale for the 2nd unit. Given how those additional diagrams are usually created; it’s entirely believable that the position indicators would be wrong.

I can find out for definite tonight whether it was a 5 or a 10.

@JN114. Yep, one unit was on the standard IW914 diagram and the second unit, IIRC was on IW9140.

 

[Peter C]

Thanks for the responses all - I've only ever seen five and nine-car sets on the Cotswold Line, hence why reading about this ten-car service proved so interesting!

@JN114. Yep, one unit was on the standard IW914 diagram and the second unit, IIRC was on IW9140.

Sorry for being a bit thick here, but does that mean it was a ten-car service, or a five-car?

-Peter

 

[JN114]

It was a 10 car, 2x 5 cars on a 9 car diagram.

Because the 9 car diagram would be “used” by putting a 5 car on it, the high speed controller will have copy/pasted the original IW914 diagram and made a “new” IW9140 diagram to allocate the second unit to; so industry systems, info screens, apps etc would all correctly show the formation as 10 cars

 

[Peter C]

It was a 10 car, 2x 5 cars on a 9 car diagram.

Because the 9 car diagram would be “used” by putting a 5 car on it, the high speed controller will have copy/pasted the original IW914 diagram and made a “new” IW9140 diagram to allocate the second unit to; so industry systems, info screens, apps etc would all correctly show the formation as 10 cars

Ah wonderful - thank you
This is making me wonder if this was the first ten-car Cotswold Line IET service? I've not seen it happen before but then again I've not paid particular attention to the line over the past few months.

-Peter