Coronavirus precautions: Has the world gone mad?

[bramling]

I'm quite sure Johnson and the rest of the government know they have been fatally wounded by all of this.
There's just no way they're going to be able to stand for election off the back of it. I am pretty sure sometime this parliament Jonson will step down. Probably citing health following his run in with the virus, if I had to guess.

Everything he set out his stall as wanting to achieve at the election is now basically unachievable and the economy is tanked.

Short of them happening upon some miraculous, painless recovery, which is unlikely, I think they know it's over and they've got this term only.

Completely agree, and on top of that it’s almost inevitable there will be review after review pointing out where errors have been made. Johnson is damaged goods, and he knows it.

It doesn’t help that Johnson was elected largely on a “least worst” basis. Perhaps the more interesting question is what will become of Sunak - could he be regarded as fresh blood, or is he going to be tainted with blame for some of the economic damage?

 

[sheff1]

I'm going to be adopting a simple policy for places that enforce silly rules like this. Tell them politely as I walk out why I won't be returning,

Indeed. That was already my policy with silly rules in hospitality/retail sites before covid.

 

[Bantamzen]

A vaccine could at best be a year and at worst may never come, this is completely unrealistic

You amongst others may have noted a change of tone from the scientific / medical community in recent weeks about the potential vaccine, that is to say they have become somewhat more cautious. Which is not surprising because vaccines are incredibly difficult to engineer, test and produce. And even more so for this particular family of viruses which have proved a very elusive strain of these pesky little RNA based micro-organisms. Or in other words, a vaccine may never be forthcoming.

So fair thee well Guernsey. Perchance we will see you again in the next century...

They have an air bridge with the Isle of Man. They seem to think this will save the bacon of their tourist industry. However people who live on islands tend not to want to go on holiday to other islands.

This sounds like something contrived by the writers of The Fast Show & League Of Gentlemen. May I be the first to propose that we declare war on the two islands before the next generations of isolationists come to adulthood....??

To be fair, we hold (in some respects) the leading candidate for a vaccine, and there's no leading candidates within the EU itself, so the only advantage of joining that scheme would be for trying to obtain the American or Chinese vaccines (or license to produce), which it sounds like we are already in discussions for. Would be an odd move if, like the report says, we'd have had no input over volumes or delivery schedule!

On the flip side though, if we were lucky enough to produce a successful vaccine we would have a very good market in place to start to sell to. I can't imagine a Chinese or US of Trump administration being happy having to rely on little old us!

 

[Bletchleyite]

Looks like Guernsey are pulling the shutters down until a vaccine is found. I'd hate to be stuck on an island that small for a year, picturesque as it is.

Yes, that must be hard. However, if the UK was able to eliminate it, that would be less of a constraint.

 

[adc82140]

It will never be eliminated. The only disease ever eliminated is Smallpox. We (and Guernsey) will have to learn to live with it.

 

[Huntergreed]

Yes, that must be hard. However, if the UK was able to eliminate it, that would be less of a constraint.

Problem is the UK (or at least, England) are not trying to eliminate it, but are simply allowing it to pass through slowly whilst not overwhelming the board.

 

[MikeWM]

You amongst others may have noted a change of tone from the scientific / medical community in recent weeks about the potential vaccine, that is to say they have become somewhat more cautious. Which is not surprising because vaccines are incredibly difficult to engineer, test and produce. And even more so for this particular family of viruses which have proved a very elusive strain of these pesky little RNA based micro-organisms. Or in other words, a vaccine may never be forthcoming.

I note the Oxford people in particular a week or two back were downplaying their potential vaccine quite a bit. They seemed to be saying it may mitigate symptoms, but not stop people catching it or being able to pass it on to others. Which is probably not what most people are expecting from a 'vaccine'.

 

[westv]

I note the Oxford people in particular a week or two back were downplaying their potential vaccine quite a bit. They seemed to be saying it may mitigate symptoms, but not stop people catching it or being able to pass it on to others.

What's wrong with that though. Isn't the whole point of the last four months the serious cases rather than just cases?

 

[HSTEd]

Problem is the UK (or at least, England) are not trying to eliminate it, but are simply allowing it to pass through slowly whilst not overwhelming the board.

Because elimination is essentially impossible.

About the only way to eliminate would be to have shoot-on-sight orders for three or four weeks and hope that the infrastructure survives no maintenance for that long.

 

[AdamWW]

I note the Oxford people in particular a week or two back were downplaying their potential vaccine quite a bit. They seemed to be saying it may mitigate symptoms, but not stop people catching it or being able to pass it on to others. Which is probably not what most people are expecting from a 'vaccine'.

There has been a lot of caution over vaccines from the start.

I saw an article that described them as either "disease-modifying" (you don't get symptoms, or get milder symptoms, but can still pass it on) or "epidemic-modifying" (you don't pass it on).

For the first sort, clearly you gain little unless you have been vaccinated, where the second sort benefits everyone, including those who can't be vaccinated for whatever reason, if enough people get vaccinated.

 

[MikeWM]

What's wrong with that though. Isn't the whole point of the last four months the serious cases rather than just cases?

No particular problem, just that I don't think it is what people are expecting.

 

[Darandio]

So the battle to contain the virus continues in reverse, what a sorry bunch of lethally incompetent arrogant charlatans this lot are.

I'm certainly not the type of person to refuse to wear one when shopping, it is what it is. If anything it might give me hope that those who have been brainwashed into being scared stiff might start to adopt a more normal approach when out doing their thing if they have a mask on as they suddenly feel invincible because the majority of those around them are doing the same thing. Maybe they will no longer dive off the pavement into heavy traffic when walking towards someone or not give such a wide berth in the supermarket that they knock things from shelves as you pass. I doubt it though.

 

[Baxenden Bank]

He said he wanted people "to go back to work". Those working from home haven't stopped working so does he just mean those that aren't working at all??

Edit: I've reread what Boris said and I don't read it as saying people should only work from home now if they can't go in.

My take is that he is talking about the 'furloughs' going back to work rather than the 'working from homes' going back to their offices.

 

[Ian Cunningham]

I'm quite sure Johnson and the rest of the government know they have been fatally wounded by all of this.
There's just no way they're going to be able to stand for election off the back of it. I am pretty sure sometime this parliament Johnson will step down. Probably citing health following his run in with the virus, if I had to guess.

Everything he set out his stall as wanting to achieve at the election is now basically unachievable and the economy is tanked.

Short of them happening upon some miraculous, painless recovery, which is unlikely, I think they know it's over and they've got this term only.

It will be interesting to see how the relative fortunes of the UK / Welsh / NI / Scottish ruling parties progress over the next months/year.

The Scottish Government and the First Minister in particular seem to be retaining broad support for their approach to Covid-19 from voters of all parties and support from the SNP as a party and for an independent Scotland itself is at an all time high. The Welsh Government seems also to have broad support for its cautious approach.

Meanwhile, in Westminster, the Conservatives seem to be in a tailspin and are basically toast and that's before the impending cluster***! of Brexit

If nothing else, this year will give political historians plenty to write about

 

[Non Multi]

It will be interesting to see how the relative fortunes of the UK / Welsh / NI / Scottish ruling parties progress over the next months/year.

The Scottish Government and the First Minister in particular seem to be retaining broad support for their approach to Covid-19 from voters of all parties and support from the SNP as a party and for an independent Scotland itself is at an all time high. The Welsh Government seems also to have broad support for its cautious approach.

Meanwhile, in Westminster, the Conservatives seem to be in a tailspin and are basically toast and that's before the impending cluster***! of Brexit

If nothing else, this year will give political historians plenty to write about

From the Britain Elects poll feed on Twitter
Westminster voting intention: CON: 46% (+1) LAB: 36% (-1) LDEM: 6% (+1) GRN: 3% (-1) BREX: 2% (-) via
YouGov
, 08 - 09 Jul Chgs. w/ 28 Jun

 

[MP33]

My employer has announced that our buildings will be re opening at the start of August. At a teams meeting, I asked a question that as initially things are very restricted should the date have been pushed back to September when the restrictions have eased.

The answer I got from the Senior Manager chairing the meeting was along the lines of,

We had to be seen to be doing something.

There are a few people who have very great issues with home working and something has to be done for them. My employer is keen on helping people who want special arrangements. It is called the golden order of the boot.

One restriction imposed is no personal deliveries to the buildings. The number of people, and it says a lot about their home arrangements. Have stuff that they ordered delivered to the office. They find out the hard way when the delivery is at a weekend when the building is closed. Whoever receives it, thinks happy birthday, merry xmas and so on.

 

[Bantamzen]

"We had to be seen to be doing something". The punchline of the pandemic.

If I had the spare cash, I would have this plastered up on billboards nationwide, because it perfectly sums up all the silly little rules and ideas individual companies, politicians and sadly even experts seem to dream up constantly. One way systems in supermarkets, snakes & ladders like boxes in aisles, quarantining books that have been touched, millions of miles of tape, billions of tons of plastic screens, banging pots outside doors....

Oh I could go on, yet the bottom line, the absolutely undisputed mitigations of good hygiene and having the right level of healthcare support seem to almost be ignored by the Covid-Fanatics who are busily finding dafter & dafter ways to make our lives that little more miserable, and their own businesses that little more unviable, all in the name of being seen to be doing something.

 

[Bantamzen]

Not quite sure where this should go, but shouldn't we be seeing a spike in cases from all the day trippers that were out at the beach a fortnight ago?

I've answered this here rather than in the Scottish mask thread as its probably a more suitable place.

In answer to your question, possibly so although there may still be a bit of lag between the potential infection, people becoming symptomatic and tests being done & confirmed. But even so, the median time for symptoms to appear is around 5.2 days, therefore if these events had been "super spreaders" as was promoted by some, by now you'd expect to see an upward trend going on. But thus far there does not seem to be one.

 

[duncanp]

If I had the spare cash, I would have this plastered up on billboards nationwide, because it perfectly sums up all the silly little rules and ideas individual companies, politicians and sadly even experts seem to dream up constantly. One way systems in supermarkets, snakes & ladders like boxes in aisles, quarantining books that have been touched, millions of miles of tape, billions of tons of plastic screens, banging pots outside doors....

One of the most depressing things about the "new normal" is the way people so readily accept it, and even prefer it to the "old normal".

As an example, a cafe near where I live in Birmingham announced that it would not be re-opening for indoor eating and drinking despite being allowed to do so by the government. It said that this was "...to protect the health of our staff and customers and ensure that we are all safe..." (or words to that effect).

Never mind the fact that this is complete nonsense, as they could have adopted appopriate measures such as extra cleaning routines, at least 1 metre between tables.. etc.

What was even more depressing was the number of people on their Facebook page who actually agreed with them and said comments such as "...thank you for being considerate.." or "thank you for protecting the my family's health" etc.

We'll see how much people like this in the middle of winter when they have to consume their coffee and cake standing up in the street in the pouring rain and freezing cold, and with no possibility of access to a toilet afterwards.

I wouldn't suprprise me if someone doesn't enforce compulsory face masks in restaurants, cafes and bars, where you are graciously allowed to pull the mask down while you sip your beer, but you had better pull it up pronto in between sips, just to reduce transmission of the big bad killer virus. (Hope there are no mask enthusiasts reading this as it might give them ideas )

 

[talldave]

What was even more depressing was the number of people on their Facebook page who actually agreed with them and said comments such as "...thank you for being considerate.." or "thank you for protecting the my family's health" etc.

There's another health risk here - my blood pressure when I see this kind of crap from Facebook Coronaphobes. If you've locked your family away until 2022, it's inconsequential and none of your business what a cafe owner does or doesn't do.

Sadly, the cafe owner may rapidly discover that the "new normal" means no customers, as sane people decide to have their coffee where they can sit and relax rather than stand in the street savouring the fumes. But that's their choice.

 

[philosopher]

One of the most depressing things about the "new normal" is the way people so readily accept it, and even prefer it to the "old normal".

The phrase ‘a new normal’ I too hate as it implies all these changes will be permanent, hence my suspicion I raised on another thread that some people do want these changes to be permanent.

If they said a temporary normal I could understand that, but the phrase new normal is definitely one that the media and politicians should be avoiding.

 

[Bantamzen]

The phrase ‘a new normal’ I too hate as it implies all these changes will be permanent, hence my suspicion I raised on another thread that some people do want these changes to be permanent.

If they said a temporary normal I could understand that, but the phrase new normal is definitely one that the media and politicians should be avoiding.

Oh there's no suspicion about it, there are plenty of people who actively try to force the "new normal", usually to their own ends.

 

[Bletchleyite]

One restriction imposed is no personal deliveries to the buildings. The number of people, and it says a lot about their home arrangements. Have stuff that they ordered delivered to the office. They find out the hard way when the delivery is at a weekend when the building is closed. Whoever receives it, thinks happy birthday, merry xmas and so on.

A lot of companies don't allow that anyway. I got told off for doing it once years ago with a former employer. It's typically for security reasons, particularly with companies that might be vulnerable to some sort of attack due to their line of business; they prefer to be able to marry up each delivery to a PO number so they know it's genuine.

 

[43066]

As an example, a cafe near where I live in Birmingham announced that it would not be re-opening for indoor eating and drinking despite being allowed to do so by the government. It said that this was "...to protect the health of our staff and customers and ensure that we are all safe..." (or words to that effect).

Never mind the fact that this is complete nonsense, as they could have adopted appopriate measures such as extra cleaning routines, at least 1 metre between tables.. etc.

What was even more depressing was the number of people on their Facebook page who actually agreed with them and said comments such as "...thank you for being considerate.." or "thank you for protecting the my family's health" etc.

Give it a few months. Furlough/govt assistance will have ended. The cafe will likely have gone to the wall (deservedly), and the idiots commenting on Facebook will either be back at work, or wondering how they’re going to pay their mortgages.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Give it a few months. Furlough/govt assistance will have ended. The cafe will likely have gone to the wall (deservedly), and the idiots commenting on Facebook will either be back at work, or wondering how they’re going to pay their mortgages.

I'm intrigued about how it's protecting them by not being open, they don't have to go.

Maybe Sunak is about to announce compulsory cafe fried breakfasts for all? I'm not going to object if he does

 

[43066]

I'm intrigued about how it's protecting them by not being open, they don't have to go.

Maybe Sunak is about to announce compulsory cafe fried breakfasts for all? I'm not going to object if he does

Well exactly. It’s just more moronic virtue signalling, and there’s far too much of that around at the moment.

I suppose a more cynical possibility is that they’ve sacked their waiting staff, negotiated reduced rent etc. and think they can make a killing over the next few weeks by flogging takeaway to the furloughed, with a skeleton staff...

 

[PHILIPE]

I read on FB yesterday that a cafe owner said that he is not re-opening until there is a vaccine available

 

[Bletchleyite]

I read on FB yesterday that a cafe owner said that he is not re-opening until there is a vaccine available

Which is his choice, any business owner is at liberty to close their business at any time if they wish (and get a different job or whatever). What they can't expect us to do is pay for that decision.

 

[Darandio]

I read on FB yesterday that a cafe owner said that he is not re-opening until there is a vaccine available

Goodbye to that cafe then.

 

[talldave]

I read on FB yesterday that a cafe owner said that he is not re-opening until there is a vaccine available

Well that's one way of going out of business!