Cornwall resignalling query

[Colin1501]

I've just been reading about this resignalling scheme, due to be commissioned next year. The 'core' of the scheme appears to be the abolition of the existing signal boxes at Lostwithiel, Par and Truro, and transfer of control of the area - including the Falmouth branch - to a new workstation in Exeter PSB. The existing boxes at St Erth and Penzance will remain, as will that at Liskeard. In the latter case, we will have the strange situation (though becoming more common with modern schemes) of Liskeard fringing with Plymouth to the east, and Exeter to the west!

On the Newquay branch, the boxes at St Blazey and Goonbarrow Junction will remain, but a second platform road will be reinstated at Newquay, and a new (reinstated?) passing loop provided at Goss Moor. So my question is this. Will these new facilities on the branch also be controlled from Exeter, or from one of the existing boxes on the branch?

Grateful for any info.

Colin

 

[Railsigns]

The plan I've seen shows the Newquay branch being controlled from a new panel in Goonbarrow Junction box.

 

[DaveHarries]

From the engineering works section of GWR's website there are engineering works, presumably all in connection with this, as follows:
5th, 6th & 13th November 2022: St. Austell - Penzance (incl. Truro - Falmouth)
19th & 20th November 2022: Lostwithiel - St. Austell
05th - 08th December 2022: Truro - Penzance
27th - 30th January 2023: Par - Newquay
[Source: https://www.gwr.com/travel-information/travel-updates/planned-engineering]

The loss of the semaphores on the route will be regrettable as they add a nice heritage aspect to journeys along the Par - Newquay and Truro - Lostwithiel routes. I notice that the works between Truro and Penzance for 05th - 08th December also include St. Erth - St. Ives so perhaps quite a bit of work being done on that engineering block although hopefully the St. Erth mechanicals will remain for some time yet. I will have to try and find a way of getting some photos in before the semaphores go.

On the Newquay branch, the boxes at St Blazey and Goonbarrow Junction will remain, but a second platform road will be reinstated at Newquay, and a new (reinstated?) passing loop provided at Goss Moor. So my question is this. Will these new facilities on the branch also be controlled from Exeter, or from one of the existing boxes on the branch?

Grateful for any info.

Colin

The plan I've seen shows the Newquay branch being controlled from a new panel in Goonbarrow Junction box.

Hmm. If that latter point proves true then St. Blazey would presumably be abolished and I guess Exeter could take that over. Pity about the loss of the semaphores at Goonbarrow Junction: I have tried photos of that box before by crossing the marshland opposite and didn't get much. By the time I get down there again it will be rainy season: with hindsight perhaps the heatwave might have made crossing the marsh easier: pity I didn't think of that. You can't do it from the window of a Class 150 either and St. Blazey SB is also no easier to photo.

Dave

 

[Sir Felix Pole]

Penzance, St. Erth and Roskear Junction (Camborne) are being retained for the medium term. Goonbarrow Junction and St. Blazey remain for the moment - their fate will become clearer as the Mid- Cornwall Metro scheme is worked up. In 2024 the eastern section of Plymouth PSB (Hemerdon - Totnes (excl)) is to be resignalled with a new work-station there rather than Exeter (for the moment at least).

 

[Ashley Hill]

In 2024 the eastern section of Plymouth PSB (Hemerdon - Totnes (excl)) is to be resignalled with a new work-station there rather than Exeter (for the moment at least).

Any new block sections included?

 

[louis97]

Any new block sections included?

An extra section on the up between Aish and Totnes. Ivybridge station becomes its own section in both directions. Hemerdon Loop is abolished.

 

[Ashley Hill]

An extra section on the up between Aish and Totnes. Ivybridge station becomes its own section in both directions. Hemerdon Loop is abolished.

Thanks. Shame about Hemerdon,it might not see much use nowadays but it’s handy to have.

 

[MarkyT]

Thanks. Shame about Hemerdon,it might not see much use nowadays but it’s handy to have.

Especially for something out of course, putting a track machine or some empty stock out the way for example. Only 333m standage though according to the sectional appendix, albeit any freight in the vicinity is likely to be restricted in length due to local gradients. How long ago was the down loop taken out of use? Old aerial imagery shows the loop plain track still present in 2002, but the point connections look like they'd been removed by then.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 30 Aug 2022 ==

In 2024 the eastern section of Plymouth PSB (Hemerdon - Totnes (excl)) is to be resignalled with a new work-station there rather than Exeter (for the moment at least).

Interesting that this area is younger than Plymouth station signalling. Along with the Laira area, it was an extension of Plymouth panel dating from 1973, while the original North Road - Saltash resignalling occurred in 1960. The original colour light layout at North Road was simplified significantly soon after commissioning, when junctions towards Millbay were removed; the nearly new equipment was modified accordingly.

 

[Gloster]

The original 1960 fringes to Plymouth Panel were Laira Junction and Mount Gould Junction to the east, and Millbay, Keyham and Devonport Kings Road to the west. Devonport Kings Road closed in 1965 and Millbay in 1969, while the extensions eastwards to the fringe at Totnes (including the closure of Mount Gould Junction) and westwards to St Germans took place in late 1973.

Source: GWR Signal Box Register, First (paper) edition (Signalling Record Society).

 

[MarkyT]

The original 1960 fringes to Plymouth Panel were Laira Junction and Mount Gould Junction to the east, and Millbay, Keyham and Devonport Kings Road to the west. Devonport Kings Road closed in 1965 and Millbay in 1969, while the extensions eastwards to the fringe at Totnes (including the closure of Mount Gould Junction) and westwards to St Germans took place in late 1973.

Source: GWR Signal Box Register, First (paper) edition (Signalling Record Society).

I remember the installation in that post '73 condition with the fringe to Totnes when I was attached to various local maintenance teams for short periods as a trainee in 1983. I recall the big 'P style' plug-in relays forming Plymouth's main station interlocking in the panel building were thought of as rather 'old school' at the time. Nearly 40 years later I assume they are still there, although clearly it's a bit of a 'Triggers Broom', or 'Ship of Thesius' conundrum if you prefer your analogies more classical! After Exeter PSB took over, the fringe between the two panels remained at Totnes.

 

[Sir Felix Pole]

When the Plymouth station area is eventually re-signalled, there is plenty of scope for remodelling - the 1974 platforms 2/3 arrangement was designed for mail and parcels traffic now long gone. It does give a miserable passenger environment - it would be nice if platform 2 could be the principal down platform again offering direct access to the concourse.

I hope that a use for Par SB is found - it is the only one left on the network that originally signalled broad-gauge trains.

 

[Ashley Hill]

Old aerial imagery shows the loop plain track still present in 2002, but the point connections look like they'd been removed by then.

I believe it was taken OOU in the mid 80s after damage caused by a derailment.

 

[Gloster]

I believe it was taken OOU in the mid 80s after damage caused by a derailment.

Hemerdon Down Loop was shown in the March 1989 Quail, but had gone by the 2000 edition. I found an unconfirmed report that it had gone by 1991 after an empty PW wagon derailed on the entry points. They may have intended to reinstate it as the track remained in situ for probably more than ten years, but the work was never done.

 

[MarkyT]

I have a vague feeling that I have read that Exeter will need complete refurbishment before it can become a ROC. It would be common sense, although that is not always Network Rail’s style, not to move everything in to it and then have to move it all out again, and then back in again.

The decision to site a workstation at Plymouth may rest at least partly on the space available in the operations room at Exeter, as workstations tend to be more space efficient than panels. While there may be room for the initial Cornish desk there, making room for Plymouth control transfer as well might need to wait for the existing Exeter control area to migrate to workstations first. In the interim, some of the younger panel staff at Plymouth might be trained up for the new workstation sited there, then they will be favourites for eventual transfer to the further expanded Exeter, when Plymouth panel finally closes.

 

[irish_rail]

Tbf I don't recall seeing a single train using Hemerdon loop in the past ten years or so (other than morning ECS to Paignton being routed through presumably to keep it operational as we never actually got stopped , just routed through). So it seems unsurprising they are removing it.

 

[a good off]

In the days of regular and heavy freights over that section it was a useful regulating point. The DGL which must’ve been gone for 30 years was a useful holding point for traffic waiting acceptance into places like Tavvy Yard or Laira. In earlier years they’d have used it to pin down the wagon brakes on unfitted trains.

 

[Freightmaster]

Tbf I don't recall seeing a single train using Hemerdon loop in the past ten years or so (other than morning ECS to Paignton being routed through presumably to keep it operational as we never actually got stopped , just routed through)...

That still happens - the most recent train to do so was 5U06 last Wednesday:

Realtime Trains | 5U06 0320 Laira T.& R.S.M.D. to Exeter St Davids | 31/08/2022

Real-time train running information for 5U06 0320 departure from Laira T.& R.S.M.D. to Exeter St Davids on 31/08/2022. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

MARK

 

[DaveHarries]

OOI (and apologies if I have asked this elsewhere before - I don't think I have) is it yet known when the scheme will be commissioned and the boxes will be formally abolished? Merel;y an attempt to find out whether I will have enough time to get down there for a last set of photos next year. I am guessing that it won't be before January 2023 given the works on the Par - Newquay line due for then.

Dave

 

[Gloster]

OOI (and apologies if I have asked this elsewhere before - I don't think I have) is it yet known when the scheme will be commissioned and the boxes will be formally abolished? Merel;y an attempt to find out whether I will have enough time to get down there for a last set of photos next year. I am guessing that it won't be before January 2023 given the works on the Par - Newquay line due for then.

Dave

A recent edition of the Journal of the Signalling Record Society (No. 206) said November 2023.

 

[The Planner]

A recent edition of the Journal of the Signalling Record Society (No. 206) said November 2023.

Commissioning starts 1st November 23, finishes at the end of the month.

 

[DaveHarries]

Post removed; replaced with a different one below (#23).

Dave

 

[Rail Ranger]

I see it was mentioned upthread that Par is the last surviving box on the national network to have signalled broad gauge trains. Williton box on the West Somerset Railway also did so.

 

[DaveHarries]

Commissioning starts 1st November 23, finishes at the end of the month.

Many thanks for this.

Through a forum I have been linked into an article on the railengineer.co.uk site. The article, dated April 2022, gives some information on the plans for the Newquay, Looe and Gunnislake lines.

Gunnislake line:
- the crossings at Okel Tor and Sandways will be changed from open crossings to AOCL (Automatic Open Crossing Controlled Locally): the road layouts at those locations (the crossings are next to road junctions) mean that barriers cannot be installed.

Newquay line:
- New passing loop for Goss Moor to facilitate an hourly service
- Reinstatement of the second platform at Newquay which will enable more through trains from beyond Par.

Looe line:
- conversion of the crossings at Lodge Farm and Terras from open crossings to ABCL.

The aricle, for anyone interested, can be found at https://www.railengineer.co.uk/a-modular-approach-to-signalling-in-cornwall/ and gives a good amount of detail. No mention is made of what will happen to St. Blazey SB though which I guess will abolish with control passing, as with Lostwithiel, Par and Truro, to Exeter?

Dave

 

[Gloster]

The aricle, for anyone interested, can be found at https://www.railengineer.co.uk/a-modular-approach-to-signalling-in-cornwall/ and gives a good amount of detail. No mention is made of what will happen to St. Blazey SB though which I guess will abolish with control passing, as with Lostwithiel, Par and Truro, to Exeter?

Dave

I have only seen mention of Truro, Par and Lostwithiel closing next year. I would presume that St Blazey and Goonbarrow will stay for the moment.

 

[Ashley Hill]

the crossings at Okel Tor and Sandways will be changed from open crossings to AOCL (Automatic Open Crossing Controlled Locally): the road layouts at those locations (the crossings are next to road junctions) mean that barriers cannot be installed.

That will be a huge improvement especially at Okeltor Crossing which has very poor sighting for both road and rail drivers.

 

[DaveHarries]

I have only seen mention of Truro, Par and Lostwithiel closing next year. I would presume that St Blazey and Goonbarrow will stay for the moment.

Yes I have heard that St. Blazey is staying although I wonder how much need there will be for it. Controlling freight movements I guess.

That will be a huge improvement especially at Okeltor Crossing which has very poor sighting for both road and rail drivers.

Yes indeed. I have been past there both by road and by rail: it wouldn't surprise me if there have been a few accidents and near misses at Okeltor.

Dave

 

[richw]

the crossings at Okel Tor and Sandways will be changed from open crossings to AOCL (Automatic Open Crossing Controlled Locally): the road layouts at those locations (the crossings are next to road junctions) mean that barriers cannot be installed.

What is a AOCL in layman terms? What does it feature ?

 

[DaveHarries]

What is a AOCL in layman terms? What does it feature ?

Traffic signals but no barriers.
See https://www.flickr.com/photos/thagrol/3903955752/ (not my photo)

Dave

 

[Annetts key]

AOCL (Automatic Open Crossing Controlled Locally): the road layouts at those locations (the crossings are next to road junctions) mean that barriers cannot be installed.

AOCL actually stands for Automatic Open Crossing Locally monitored. There are normally no driver/operator controls. These crossings detect the approach of trains and automatically start the sequence to provide the correct amber and then flashing red road lights in the wig wag traffic signals. Until the red road lights have been proved lit, the train driver will see a flashing red signal. If the crossing controls have operated correctly and enough of the red flashing red road lights have been proved to be lit, the train driver will then see a white proceed signal. The train can then cross. Note that normally the crossing is ready for the train before it gets to the crossing, so it does not normally have to stop.

After the train completely clears the crossing, the crossing controls will reset back to their normal state, all the road traffic lights will extinguish and the signals for the train driver will go back to the flashing red state.

Unless the junction straddles the crossing, it is possible to have a barrier crossing where it’s next to a junction. Extra wig wag traffic signals are then provided. Of course, narrow country lanes make things rather more awkward unless the local authority is able to widen part of the lane.

 

[davetheguard]

That will be a huge improvement especially at Okeltor Crossing which has very poor sighting for both road and rail drivers.

Note that normally the crossing is ready for the train before it gets to the crossing, so it does not normally have to stop.

I assume Okeltor & Sandways are the two crossings where the train currently comes to a grinding halt before restarting over the road?

If so, this will definitely be an improvement; the driver is already having to cope with steep gradients & sharp curvature between Bere Alston & Gunnislake without having to stop at road crossings too.